Working away - legal rights? Help!

SarahLou

I'm posting this on behalf of my husband as he isn't a member of these forums. I've already looked on the ACAS website but can't actually find anything at all about working away.

(Its a lengthy one I'm afraid but really need help and advice on this one!)

OK, here is the situation.... my hubby is an <removed for fear of his ID being revealed!> and has been for many, many years. (More than he cares to remember! ) Since this 'ere recession hit, many <business type removed to reduce possibility of his ID being revealed> companies have gone under as a lot of work tended to come from housing development sites, etc. Luckily the company my hubby works for is still up and running and has managed to keep all its members of staff in full time work. However, to do this, they're now tendering for work all over the country.... regularly. This pee'd a lot of folk off as they didn't want to work away all that regularly. It was becoming an almost constant thing for some poor members of staff and the bosses essentially told them "like it or lump it, at least we're keeping you in work". (Words to that effect).

Sooo, 3 of those people have left and gone on to do completely different jobs, taken up new careers in some cases. Good on them.

That now leaves a workforce that is slightly lacking in numbers which now means that the rest of those left are getting sent away regularly.

Now my hubby and I have a little daughter (just turned 2), two dogs, lots of other committments, etc. So he's in no position to be wanting to be getting sent away regularly for periods of time. (So far over this last 6 weeks he's been away 4.5 weeks). At the moment he's on a 2 week stint in Birmingham.

BUT, although he hates being sent away, he realises that until he finds another job elsewhere, he'll have to just "lump it" as the saying goes. However, can anyone tell us the legalities over such things as:

1. Should you be entitled to a room on your own?
(As so far he has had to sleep on a settee for one entire week as they cocked up and booked a twin room with one un-usable bed in for him and a colleague) and he's had to share twin rooms on all other occasions too.
There has even been threats that at some point sharing with the opposite sex might come into it. And even threats that sometimes they book double rooms rather than twin rooms to save money!!!! :eek: (this hasn't happened to him personally.... yet) but is it not written somewhere that you should at least be entitled to seperate rooms when working away with colleagues of either sex!? Privacy, time alone, snoring, etc. surely all this comes into it?

2. What time is a suitable time for his bosses to demand he gets to "site" for? (Site being anywhere now in the country).
They have currently demanded 8-8:30am which in some instances has involved him leaving the house at 4am. Fair enough if you're a Postie but if your normal contracted hours of work are 8:30am-4:30pm, where do they stand on this one?

3. It hasn't happened to hubby yet but it has happened to some of his colleagues - his bosses have told them there is nowt in the budget to allow them to come home at weekends unless they pay for their travelling expenses themselves from work on Friday and to work on the Monday again. Is this legal? (When they are only contracted to work Mon-Fri routinely)

4. On the last "away" job my boss did he was actually with one of his line managers (of whom there are 3 of), it was the one who had "won" the job for the company that he was with. Friday came around and they were in a B&B (this was the only time he has had a seperate single room to himself.... no wonder cos his boss wouldn't want to share with anyone now would he?!) Anyway, Friday morning comes around and his boss leaves my hubby to pay the bill for that night as his boss had no overdraft facility and couldn't pay for it himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I'd been the hubby I'd have told him where to go and walked out leaving boss-man to take the flack from the B&B but hubby was too nice and paid it. Fair enough he got the money back in expenses quite quickly but could he have refused to pay?

5. One of his colleagues, a lady, is getting sent away next week with one other colleague, a man, whom is infamously a bit "odd" (even his bosses acknowledge that much) - he's a self-confessed Satanist, a right womaniser and one whom, being female myself, I wouldn't feel comfortable being alone with..... there is a threat that they've been made to share a twin room. If that happens to be right (and it wouldn't surprise me if it is), does she have a legal leg to stand on and refuse to stay unless she gets her own seperate room? As a woman, I'd not be happy sharing with this man on my own.

There is LOADS more but they are the biggies. Anyone know anything about this sort of thing? I'm surprised ACAS doesn't have anything - I've searched for things like "working away", "getting sent away", "away work", etc. but nothing comes up.

HELP!

Savvy_Sue

I would phone ACAS first thing tomorrow, but the other place to look for some of this would be on the HMRC site, eg reclaiming travel expenses.

And if I was that woman, I would not be asking, I would be TELLING the employer that unless a single room was booked I would not be going. The company would not want to test the legality of NOT paying for one at an employment tribunal, I am sure.

Zazen999

It sounds to me like they have panicked and put in tenders all over the place without budgeting for the additional cost of travel or overnights.

The staff need to sort this out as a matter of urgency; or the company will have tribunals coming out of their ears or have no staff left.

I take it there is no union representation there?

I would always expect a room alone when staying away; and they have managed to get away with it because at the start, everyone has been so scared of losing their jobs that they have conceded. No way should your husband have picked up the tab when his manager was there. It's just wrong.

Problem is, if only one person makes a stand then they are picked off one by one. The staff as a whole need to get advice, and there really should be a procedure in place for overnights, expenses, travel etc; which I am guessing they have not got.

HMRC, ACAS and an employment solicitor I think are the ways to go, if you can't rally the staff to down tools together.

butlinsmum

I've spoken to my dad who sits on Employment Tribunals and he says your husband should speak to ACAS aswell as register a grievance in writing and that it is unreasonable to be asked to share accommodation especially with a member of the opposite sex. If his employer insists he has a good case for constructive dismissal

butlinsmum x

SarahLou

Thanks everyone - I'm pleased you've all said pretty much the same thing. I had a text from the Hubby this morning to say that he hasn't had a wink of sleep all night because the chap he is sharing a room with has "horrendous snoring" (to quote!) So topped off with an ear infection and a soon-to-be-coming-out wisdom tooth, now with no sleep and he's dosed up on pain-relieving drugs, he's not a happy-bunny. :rolleyes:

I'll show him all of these posts when he gets home on Friday and I dare say he'll get onto ACAS about it too.

Sadly no, they don't have any union representative or anything like that at his place of work. In the meantime though I'll take a look on the HMRC website too.

At an annual meeting they had a couple of months back (before it got REALLY bad there, but it was starting to get this way) some of the members of staff did mention not being happy about the aforementioned points but when the bosses asked other individuals who didn't say anything, they all essentially turned around and said they were alright about it all. (They were in the minority though). Yet those people are the ones who slag the company off for the exact same reasons as my Hubby is unhappy. Why can't people just say what they feel to their bosses?! :mad: When my Hubby expressed his concerns over it all, they essentially fobbed him off and said that it had all just happened that way as a result of the recession, etc, etc, etc. And as it is now even worse, it shows they've done nowt to resolve the problems. Indeed, it gets worse on a weekly basis at the moment.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Zazen999, in that they have panicked and put tenders in too far afield without considering all the ins-and-outs.

Thanks again everyone. Much appreciated.

Zazen999

What they really need is a proper Bid Writer.....with a good accountant who can go through the costs involved alongside profit and loss margins. Sorry, been there myself with a company who used to bid set price jobs, some of which made a huge loss, and it took a good person coming in to see the error of their ways....

SarahLou

That sounds exactly what they need - Hubby has been told before now that on numerous occasions they've had to skimp towards the end of some work because there "is no money left in the budget for job A, B or C".

Given this job he's on at the minute in Birmingham has only recently started, if they're already skimping on things like making them share rooms then goodness knows what it'll be like weeks and weeks down the line. They'll have them sleeping in their cars before long :mad: :rolleyes:.... d'ya know, that really wouldn't surprise me!!

Another thing I've just remembered about a favourite of things for this company to do is they'll send x number of the archaeologists out to a digging site for x number of days/weeks/months and not actually provide a toilet/staff room of any kind.

Some of the female workers have already complained about the lack of toilet facilities but it never got them anywhere as its still happening to this day. This has been going on for over 12 months now come to think of it as some of those who complained were made to feel rather uncomfortable and have since left to persue other careers.

I dare say not providing toilets is illegal is it not? (On some occasions they've been allowed access to a local cafe or pub or something to use the loos in there but even then its a bit of a faff on as they're nigh on always covered in mud so the pub/cafe/etc. isn't best chuffed with them trapsing through with their muddy gear on!!)

On rare occasions they get provided with a portaloo and/or portacabin but its becoming more and more rare.

DKLS

Would echo the ACAS route as mentioned by other posters.

I used to travel frequently, and would never share a room or kip on a sofa that is unaceptible, I expect a minimum standard of room, currently my contract allows up to £120 per night with £27 for dinner.

I did do a stint at a local company, and the MD expected me to stop in £20 a night B&Bs, I wasn't at that company long.

As a boss If I expect an employee to give me a good days work off site, I would expect to provide them with reasonable accommodation and allowances. This I picked up from working at a pharma company, where if you had a breakfast meeting you would travel the day before and be put up for the night, rather than get up at silly oclock to get there in time, also if a flight was longer than 6 hours, we were upgraded to business class (so we werent knacked before our meeting and thus be able to function at the level that was expected.

I hope your hubbie finds a satisfactory solution.

Savvy_Sue

Just because there isn't union representation doesn't mean no-one can join a union. I know they might not be willing to represent at a tribunal immediately, but they are usually happy to give phone advice etc.

Don't know why I didn't think of the TUC last night - they have a Know your Rights section, also here's a section for working out which union might be the most appropriate for you to join.

SarahLou

Thanks for your reply. Hehehe, you'll laugh at their expenses allowance....

If they're sent away and get put in a B&B they get £5 a day to live on (because they get their breakfast provided for) - so try and buy yourself lunch and dinner and £5 - impossible in this day and age - given in a B&B you don't get a fridge, microwave, etc. Otherwise it would be do-able if you wanted to live on pasta, rice, etc. :rolleyes:

If they're sent away and get put in self catering accomodation (which my hubby prefers as at least then you can cook for yourself (albeit sharing with numerous other colleagues so all arguing over who uses what cooking utensils!) - they get £10 a day allowance, with that, that is fair enough as you can book a good amount of food for £10 a day and cook it for yourself - indeed when he's in self catering accomodation he usually makes a profit....

BUT then this is another gripe with the company.... over the last few months they are demanding to see peoples' receipts for when they're in self catering accomodation so that if they are spending less than £10 a day (which my hubby usually does do) to fend for themselves then they have to give back any money not spent on essential foods!!!!!!! :eek:

So when he's in a B&B as he is at the minute he's expected to find lunch and dinner for £5 each day and now when he's in self catering accomodation he has to make sure he spends £10 a day on food or else he has to give them cash back.

Absurd.

He would think he'd gone to heaven getting put up in £120 type B&Bs and given £27 for dinner!!!!!

The style of B&B/self catering accomodation usually provided is the cheap-as-chips style. The last place that he was at (the self catering place where he ended up on the sofa) had no working cooker, the microwave was rank apparently, the fridge was dodgy (and extremely dirty also) and there was mould in the kitchen and bathroom and the entire place smelt damp.

Lovely. :mad:

DKLS

SarahLou wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Hehehe, you'll laugh at their expenses allowance....

If they're sent away and get put in a B&B they get £5 a day to live on (because they get their breakfast provided for) - so try and buy yourself lunch and dinner and £5 - impossible in this day and age - given in a B&B you don't get a fridge, microwave, etc. Otherwise it would be do-able if you wanted to live on pasta, rice, etc. :rolleyes:

That is outrageous am certainly not laughing at that, £5 a day for food :eek: how on earth do they expect the staff to function effectively on that?
I would be fuming if expected to do that.

My full allowance and for staff is Breakfast as charged by the hotel usually these days anything between £7-15, £15 for lunch, and the £27 for dinner.
If entertaining clients this budget goes out the window. :rolleyes:

In my understanding this is partly to make up for the inconvenience for being off site, as we we would all prefer to be at home.

I rarely take my full dinner allowance, the last trip I had, I could have eaten in the 4* restaurant hotel but only fancied a bag of chips from the local chippy.