Newly installed floor tile grout cracking, breaking up

Alan_M_2

As already explained above, what you have a floating floor which is wholly unsuitable for tiling. In all my years as a tiling contractor I never once tiled one of these as they will always fail eventually, some just quicker than others.

Some people believe an uncoupling membrane such as Ditra matting can overcome these issues, however the floor would still need to be reinforced, then you have the anomaly that for an uncoupling membrane to work you musn't use flexible adhesives and grouts but to tile on an unstable substrate you must use flexible adhesives and grouts....

It all points to the same conclusion...pull it all up and get it screeded if you want a hard tiles finish or choose an alternate floor covering.

clairehi

Alan_M wrote: »

As already explained above, what you have a floating floor which is wholly unsuitable for tiling. In all my years as a tiling contractor I never once tiled one of these as they will always fail eventually, some just quicker than others.

Some people believe an uncoupling membrane such as Ditra matting can overcome these issues, however the floor would still need to be reinforced, then you have the anomaly that for an uncoupling membrane to work you musn't use flexible adhesives and grouts but to tile on an unstable substrate you must use flexible adhesives and grouts....

It all points to the same conclusion...pull it all up and get it screeded if you want a hard tiles finish or choose an alternate floor covering.

OK further explanation needed

It was previously a floating floor and the builder advised that we would therefore need to redo the subfloor before tiles could be laid. they took up the existing floor, built a framework of battens on top of the concrete blocks, insulated it (ie between the battens) and laid chipboard on top of that (ie screwed on to the battens) and then 6mm ply screwed down.

I did not spec the thickness of ply, or the construction of a suitable base for tiles, they did.

I did ask them to lay the tiles before the units went in, due to personal preference, but did not expect the floor to possibly need to be ripped out!

I did ask for the tiles to have narrow grout lines but would expect any professional to tell me if I was asking for something that would cause a problem, this was never pointed out by the main contractor or the tiler.

clairehi

Rosebery wrote: »

If you want to tackle him though he'll robably be saying he was obeying your instructions. I don't think this one is all one sided. Sorry to be blunt.

Cheers

Well I didnt tell him how to lay a suitable base for tiles, he did, and charged me to take up the existing floating floor and replace it as per his idea of what would work.

And although I asked to have narrower grout lines, I was never warned by the builder or tiler this could be a problem - which I would expect any responsible tradesman to do.

Rosebery_2

clairehi wrote: »

OK further explanation needed

It was previously a floating floor and the builder advised that we would therefore need to redo the subfloor before tiles could be laid. they took up the existing floor, built a framework of battens on top of the concrete blocks, insulated it and laid chipboard on top of that and then 6mm ply screwed down.

Fair enough they did it wrong then.

I did not spec the thickness of ply, or the construction of a suitable base for tiles, they did.

Thats fine. I do hope you didn't mind me asking then because its difficult to give advice if we don't drill down to the root of the problem in the first instance. Youd be amazed how many people baulk at the thought of having 25 mm ply put down to provide a sound basis for tiling. My response is always have it and I'll guarantee it, don't have it and I won't or find someone else to do it. Its really as simple as that so its important to find out where the ideas come from otherwise proper advice can't be given.

I did ask them to lay the tiles before the units went in, due to personal preference, but did not expect the floor to possibly need to be ripped out!

Don't have a problem with that but I would have advised you to do it afterwards but then thats me.

I did ask for the tiles to have narrow grout lines but would expect any professional to tell me if I was asking for something that would cause a problem, this was never pointed out by the main contractor or the tiler.

You are correct to have that expectation and why, if it had been me, I would probably have upset you by appearing to argue. They should have done and particularly for an area as big as 20m2.

Cheers

Rosebery_2

clairehi wrote: »

Well I didnt tell him how to lay a suitable base for tiles, he did, and charged me to take up the existing floating floor and replace it as per his idea of what would work.

Yes I can understand that now as the conversation has developed. But I hope you can see why I was asking - not to defend the actions of someone who I've never met just because he might be in the same trade as me but to get to the root of the problem to be able to offer suitable advice.

And although I asked to have narrower grout lines, I was never warned by the builder or tiler this could be a problem - which I would expect any responsible tradesman to do.

They should have done. I'd have discussed (no allright argued) with you over it but then again thats me.

Cheers

clairehi

Rosebery wrote: »

Yes I can understand that now as the conversation has developed. But I hope you can see why I was asking - not to defend the actions of someone who I've never met just because he might be in the same trade as me but to get to the root of the problem to be able to offer suitable advice.

They should have done. I'd have discussed (no allright argued) with you over it but then again thats me.

Cheers

the thing is Rosebery, now I have a newly fitted kitchen with granite worktops sitting on top of a dodgy floor. what am I going to do?

Rosebery_2

clairehi wrote: »

the thing is Rosebery, now I have a newly fitted kitchen with granite worktops sitting on top of a dodgy floor. what am I going to do?

Ask them what they are going to do about the fact that floor isn't right. Compare it with the previous one and wait for them to suggest remedies.

I don't think you should reveal anything that you have learned on here but use it to help you guide the conversation. (How the hell does Rose know we did it wrong? - he hasn't seen it! - who the .... is he anyway?)

You won't get a resolution if it turns acrimonious. The fact that its cracking says it isn't OK so they really have to address it under the terms of their workmanship guarantee - they have given you one of course? If, however, they maintain its OK and won't offer any corrective action then ask if they mind if you get it all independently assessed because you are not satisfied. In the meantime don't pay the bill in full but you should, I believe, make some payment as evidence of goodwill. You'll need to record the conversation and any agreements made on paper.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Alan_M_2

clairehi wrote: »

OK further explanation needed

It was previously a floating floor and the builder advised that we would therefore need to redo the subfloor before tiles could be laid. they took up the existing floor, built a framework of battens on top of the concrete blocks, insulated it (ie between the battens) and laid chipboard on top of that (ie screwed on to the battens) and then 6mm ply screwed down.

I did not spec the thickness of ply, or the construction of a suitable base for tiles, they did.

I did ask them to lay the tiles before the units went in, due to personal preference, but did not expect the floor to possibly need to be ripped out!

I did ask for the tiles to have narrow grout lines but would expect any professional to tell me if I was asking for something that would cause a problem, this was never pointed out by the main contractor or the tiler.

Unless the framework was mechanically attached to the concrete blocks, you have still provided a description of a floating floor, albeit a little more substantial than normal.

I'd be less concerned about 3mm grout joints, they may be an issue but are likely to be minor.

What you have here is an unsuitable substrate, without the frame being braced or attached or even glued to the conrete below I'm not completely convinced that even a 25mm ply would have been enough.

The problem is the entire design which unfortunately is not something that can be rectified without being completely removed first.

However, as already suggested we are only privy to one interpretation of what occured, so talk with the installers and see what you can do to reach the correct end result.

Fire_Fox

The only thing I can add to this is to advise you put your concerns into writing, copying the letter to both the tiler and the builder. As the builder recommended the tiler they should be able to work together to find out the cause and work out a solution. If they start blaming one another, you may have a problem.

clairehi

Alan_M wrote: »

Unless the framework was mechanically attached to the concrete blocks, you have still provided a description of a floating floor, albeit a little more substantial than normal.

QUOTE]

will check how/if framework was attached to concrete underneath.