MC015 Message & eBay Loss Prevention Department

TallGirl

Morning
Bought an set of golf clubs on Ebay on a buy it now basis using my PayPal account backed up by a credit card. Seller had 100% feedback and loads of them however had never sold any golf clubs before and now he had loads of new sets all on 1 day listing.

He did reply to a query I had so I went ahead and paid £350 but 1 hour later I got this from Ebay:

Dear (my username and email address)

We're writing to let you know that the listing for the following item you bid on has been removed:

290332180930 - CALLAWAY X20 FULL CLUB SET WITH BAG AND PUTTER

We strongly recommend that you do not complete this purchase. Purchases of items listed on eBay but then completed outside of eBay are extremely risky. They are not covered by eBay buyer protection programs and are highly susceptible to fraud.

For more information on offers to buy or sell outside of eBay, copy this link into a new browser window: xxxx

***If You Have Already Paid Using PayPal***

If you have already paid for this item but have not received it, please remember these important steps:

• A buyer has 45 days after the date of the payment to open a dispute.

• A dispute can be escalated to a claim within 20 days from when the dispute was filed.

• Buyers must wait at least 10 days from the date of payment to escalate a dispute for an item not received.

• If the dispute is not escalated to a claim within 20 days, PayPal will close the dispute. A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a PayPal claim.

• When the 20-day deadline is approaching, PayPal will remind you by email and in the "Resolution Center."

You can learn more about the PayPal Dispute Resolution process by reviewing step-by-step tutorials in the Resolution Center after logging into PayPal.com.

***If you've already paid by a means other than PayPal***

xxxxx

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards,

eBay Trust & Safety

H12924

His account says he is no longer registered and I have no records of the purchase is my Ebay. I did not take a print out of the advert and Ebay has now removed it so I cannot. I have spoken to Paypal and they cannot stop the money obviously. Ebays reponse to my query was that the above email as a spoof which is cannot have been as it came as an alert on my ebay account.

Seller has sent me this:
Hi
My selling limits have been reached on ebay. I can,t get in touch with them until tomorrow to have them increased. Please be reassured your item will be shipped. Please dont put a claim with paypal as that will further affect things. You have my personal email now for contact until i can get in touch with ebay.
Thanks

Why would Ebay remove his listings, has he hacked into someone elses account? I am not going to get them am I shall I just logde a claim now? Please advice if you have any experience of this.

Many thanks

frivolous_fay

Ok I have a strong feeling here that he's selling fake clubs. There may be an innocent reason for the 1-day listings but I can't think of it.

Personally, I would email him and say something along the lines of:

'I am worried that ebay have suspended you - I hope the clubs are genuine.
If you have any doubt about whether they are authentic Callaway clubs, please do not send them, as I can tell the difference. Please refund me asap if your clubs are not genuine.'

Not very refined, perhaps someone else can do better.... if they're fake clubs, then you really don't want the hassle of sorting the whole mess out once they arrive. And you REALLY don't wanna pay £350 for fake clubs.

TallGirl

Thanks frivolous fav that is a good idea. I think you are right they have to be fake I think it is also strange that he does not sign his name on the email.

It annoys me that I did not print out the listing and now that I has been removed I can't. Just wondered if he can get away with selling false ones as I cannot prove the listing stating they were genuine (which is what it said). Can I ask Ebay for a copy of it?

cyril82

it's difficult to be sure what’s happening as ebay are being their usual vague self.

it may well be that ebay's automated security system has flagged his account as high risk if he has listed multiple identical high value items on one day listings out of the blue as you indicate in your original post.

the fact he has contacted you makes me feel slightly more inclined to believe he is genuine and i'd get in contact with him and ask when he is going to send the clubs, if he starts delaying and making excuses put in a paypal claim.

I used to sell in one of ebay's high risk categories on 1 day listings a couple of years back before ebay really had a problem with the format, however now that the one day format in certain categories has been abused by scammers ebay don't like it and have set their automated systems to shut people down if they list too much too soon of the same thing on one day listings, in certain categories.

the problem is ebay don't really tell you what is too much, too soon or what exact items are high risk or that listing too much on one day listings might get your account closed "for security" so if it happens to a seller usually the first they know about it is when they try access their account and find it has been closed.

When ebay first started doing this i got hit by it, several years selling on a very established account, powerseller status and they still shut my account without warning, it took me 7 days to get the account open again, in which time ebay had allowed me access to my account and the ability to read my worried customers messages but not reply, that just created the impression that i was not replying to their concerns which caused chaos, luckily i managed to get hold of most of their emails from paypal and let them know what was happening etc and give them by business contact details.

Ebay also sent an auto generated message to all my customers, not reassuring them that they were just taking security precautions but advising my buyers claim back their money via paypal, this created multiple paypal chargeback’s and lead to paypal limiting the account, all in all it was a nightmare and despite getting the ebay account back in 7 days i had to stop selling for a couple of weeks until i sorted the paypal fiasco out, then i had lost all of my listing templates and my selling manager pro subscription had gone so i was back to square one, a couple of grand in lost profits and a couple of hundred in chargeback’s out of pocket, a couple of negs on my account for not replying (i couldn't) to some people who had paid by cheque or postal order and so who's details i couldn't access.
This led to me dropping the one day auction format on high end products all together, i have had no repeat of this since i dropped the one day format.

The trouble is how do you know if he is having a genuine unforeseen problem with ebay as i did or if he is a scammer? well i'd put money on the fact paypal will have frozen any funds in his account so your money should be safe, give him a few days to deliver the clubs and if he doesn't or stops communicating open a paypal dispute and you should get back your money, i wouldn't panic just yet.

Premier_2

The fact he's referred to them as Callaway in the listing title should be good enough if/when you find they are in fact not genuine.

TallGirl

Thanks for the advice all of you it is so helpful.

I am really tempted to send the email asking if they are real and ask for my money back.

On the otherhand maybe there are a glimmer of hope that he is real. The clubs were made 2 years ago (he hasn't told me this but I know that from the type they are.) He could have purchased an old batch from somewhere. He also stated delivery would be 10 days and he stated that again in a message via Ebay when I asked about it. He offered them with regular or stiff shafts which suggests he is having them made hence the delivery time. He definitely knows about golf but then again he would have to fake them wouldn't he.

We are going on holiday on the 31st for 2 weeks which doesn't help.

dinglebert

The alternative is however that he importing fakes from the far east where they are very common as each sale is made. eg you want graphite shafts he orders for half what you have paid and then sends them on when they arrive.

pinkshoes

They're probably fake imports from China - A colleague of mine got given a set as a gift from a supplier, and he also had his listing pulled when he tried to sell them on ebay, as they didn't want the brand name showing for some reason - he just had to list them as a set of golf clubs.

SpammyTheSpammer

Could this be related to the current issue of sales on eBay of items from specific manufacturers? Like this, about Ebays begging mail to sign their petition: -

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1824283

Anuyone know if Calloway are one of the objectors?

TallGirl

Thanks again for the advice.

Just had an email from Paypal in my inbox full refund plus this note from the seller:

Hi Paypal have limited my account so I have refunded you.

I think that is what you call a lucky escape. I am quite a serious golfer so fakes would not really be something I would contemplate. Will have a good look around but will be vary of any more new sets. Thanks

cyril82

Some brand owners don't want their goods sold on ebay, they will therefore use the vero reporting system to report items containing their brand name and get it removed and ebay in fear of another lawsuit will often shut down any account selling certain items, why they don't just ask people not to sell certain brands is beyond me, if they are only going to pull a listing and close someone's account if they sell a certain brand is there any logical reason for not simply telling users in advance not to list these certain items?

Ebay logic, best left to minds greater than mine to fathom, that's for sure.