Ebay small claim court, success !! But now won't pay

Premier_2

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

...Is it worth it for £250? Remember to look at the amount you need to pay a bailiff to pursue this.

The costs of enforcing the judgement will be added to the amount the defendant owes.
(but it has to be paid to the court by the claimant first - the court won't want to lose out if the defendant cannot be found or is unable to pay)

Premier_2

soolin wrote: »

...Edit : If someone who is better with words than me could write something brief I'll add it onto a sticky thread somewhere .

Remember, the court cannot guarantee you will get your money back and you will have to pay a fee for any action you take. Although the court will add the fee to the money the defendant already owes, the court cannot return what you have paid if you do not get your money from the defendant, or the court refuses your application.

However, your financial situation may mean you do not have to pay a fee. The guidance Court Fees - do I have to pay them? provides further information on this. Court staff can also provide you with a copy of this guidance and the application form. You will have to make a separate application for each fee that you would otherwise have to pay.

Before you decide how to continue you should consider whether:

• you are likely to get your money and court fee from the defendant;
• the defendant owes other people money or has other county court judgments;
• the defendant owns any goods or assets which can be taken and sold at auction;
• the defendant is working;
• the defendant has other earnings, such as income from investments;
• the defendant has a bank, building society or other account;
• the defendant owns property (a house); or
• anyone else owes the defendant money.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/enforcement/judgment/index.htm

Premier_2

kevinyork wrote: »

My partner and I tok someone through the County Court system a few years back and basically he used every stalling tactic going. He would not turn up for court dates then present stupid reasons and the court would simply set another date which he would then not attend either.

... He got all his court costs free as he claimed to be unemployed when in fact he was a self employed courier.

What court costs did the defendant incur?

Normally a case is transferred to a defendants local court to minimuise their expenses. Wouldn't have thought a local bus fare would be much ... and if he claimed he was unemployed he cant claim the possible £50 per day loss of earnings.

Of course if he never went to court, he wouldn't be able to claim the bus fare either.

cyril82

The county court is a very useful way of getting your money back but of course it is not a guarantee.

i think most people are aware of the risks of not actually recovering their money if the person does a runner and i don't think we really need to warn people.

Usually claiming via a county court works best against businesses as they can not as easily up sticks and move and usually have either the money to pay or goods you can seize if they don't, individuals may not have the means to pay and end up paying you a token payment of say £2 a month which if the court agrees will prevent you taking any further action and will mean you will have to wait for your money, £250 at £2 a month is over 10 years.

It is a case of if you get ripped off like the op or someone owes you money what do you do? spend a little extra trying to recover the money or let the person get away with it?

Given the choice i'd pursue them out of principal if nothing else.

If you want to have some sort of disclaimer or warning about this i'd say just don't make it sound too intimidating, you don't want to stop people taking action if it's the right thing to do and the court website it's self has guidance on how the process works, i'd suggest something short and simple like;
Remember, even if you obtain a judgement from the county court it does not necessarily guarantee that you will get your money back, the person you are claiming against might not pay or might not have the means to pay, see the court website for guidance on what happens if the debtor does not pay and be sure you know all the risks before making a balanced decision on whether or not this is the right course of action for you and consider whether or not you can afford to lose the cost of issuing the county court claim if the debtor does not pay.

I don't think you need say anymore than that.

Premier_2

cyril82 wrote: »

...Given the choice i'd pursue them out of principal if nothing else...

Remember also that although it might leave you a few quid out of pocket, if the judgement isn't settled in full within 28 days, the defendant ends up with a CCJ against them which will usually cause them significant problems later.

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi, I agree, it is really important to go into court claims with your eyes wide open. If you are dealing with a 'professional debtor' or an individual who already has CCJ's, or an individual who doesn't have a bean to their name, or simply couldn't give a stuff about court papers, you are likely to be throwing good money after bad. Fine if it is a matter of principle, but at least be aware of what you might be letting yourself in for.

Have a look at this thread. It is about people who lend to friends/family and end up considering court action when the person fails to pay or disappears.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=76953

The reason for the debt is different but the court scenario is the same.

Also, re bailiffs - if an individual takes someone to the small claims court, they cannot appoint a private bailiff to recover the debt. If you want to send the bailiffs in you must go back to court for an order. You have to pay an up-front fee which is added to the debt and is recovereable IF they find the debtor and IF s/he has any possessions worth seizing. But if the person refuses to let the county court bailiffs in, or they are 'not at home' when the bailiffs call, then the warrant will be returned to the court as 'unsatisfied' and the bailiff will move onto the next debtor on his list.

elsien

I'd second that however be aware that it could take years rather than months. A relative took someone to the small claims court, kept pursuing it because of the principle (and because they'd really pee'd her off!) - she had to pay a fair amount out in court and bailiffs costs, then they got some sort of order which meant they only had to pay half the amount at a few pounds a month, and after they defaulted on that a judge finally called a halt on their evasion tactics. My relative got the money and her costs back but I think the whole process took 3-4 years from start to finish. A lot of people would have given up by then.

zzzLazyDaisy

elsien wrote: »

My relative got the money and her costs back but I think the whole process took 3-4 years from start to finish. A lot of people would have given up by then.

Or, in a lot of cases, the debtor would have moved without a forwarding address.

Premier_2

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

... If you want to send the bailiffs in you must go back to court for an order. You have to pay an up-front fee which is added to the debt and is recovereable IF they find the debtor and IF s/he has any possessions worth seizing. But if the person refuses to let the county court bailiffs in, or they are 'not at home' when the bailiffs call, then the warrant will be returned to the court as 'unsatisfied' and the bailiff will move onto the next debtor on his list.

Whilst you are correct that a bailiff cannot force entry, there are other ways to enforce judgement (see my earlier link for details)

zzzLazyDaisy

Premier wrote: »

Whilst you are correct that a bailiff cannot force entry, there are other ways to enforce judgement (see my earlier link for details)

Yes, sorry I'm not disputing that.

The point I am making is that every method of enforcement involves a court fee, and requires you to have some information about the debtor (bank account with funds for a garnishee order; details of employment for an attachment of earnings order, etc). If you have a debtor who had no job, no money, and doesn't mind moving on a fairly regular basis (which may even be necessary to avoid their other creditors) then you may never see your money.

Many people may think that is worth the risk - but equally many people think that once they have a CCJ the debtor has got to pay them the money, when in fact that is not always the case.