Drove off before PCN attached, NTO received in post

katie84

Hi guys,

I'm sure there is an answer somewhere in the forums, but the search isn't being helpful. Can you help me please?

Basically about a month ago I exceeded the paid for time in a pay and display car park in Birmingham. I returned to my car just as the attendant was noting down my details. Seeing that he hadn't yet issued the PCN, I got in my car and drove off (just as he was saying to me "Don't drive off"). The PCN hadn't yet been printed from what I could see. However, he took a photo of my car as I was pulling away. I hadn't heard anything off them and even threw my parking ticket away as I thought there was nothing to worry about.

Today over a month later I received a Notice to Owner in the post, in my father's name (he is the registered owner of the car - I am just a registered driver) asking for the full £50.

Any advice? I thought that if you drive off before the PCN is attached, you are clear.

Many thanks,

Katie.

peter_the_piper

I'm afraid that went out a while ago. Post a copy of both sides on here and the more expert among us will help you. Scan/Photo both sides and remove identifying marks and post using tinypic. It may be that the nto is faulty in some way which could help you.

Coblcris

Assuming that this is decriminalised then should has sent a postal Regulation 10 PCN which also serves as the NTO. If they have send a standard NTO to a purported Regulation 9 PCN (these are handed to the driver or attached to the vehicle) then they have committed a procedural error and you should prevail. It would seem that the CEO is being less that complaint owth the regulations. Challenge the council for photographs. Was there a witness in the vehicle with you ?

For decriminalised rules I recommend this as the place to start.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/tmaportal/tmafeatures/tmapart6/betterprkstatutoryguid.pdf

The Statutory Instruments to which this document refers and which also should be examined are freely available on http://www.opsi.gov.uk/stat Just click on the year and find the S.I number.

VictorW3

I wonder if someone could clarify this but I too thought that a Parking Ticket had to be placed on the windscreen as usual by the traffic warden/attendant and that just noting down a car number from afar and then writing a ticket after the car has moved away is not validly served.

Was this/is this not the case?

Thanks.

Victor. 17/7/09

Doodles22

katie84 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm sure there is an answer somewhere in the forums, but the search isn't being helpful. Can you help me please?

Basically about a month ago I exceeded the paid for time in a pay and display car park in Birmingham. I returned to my car just as the attendant was noting down my details. Seeing that he hadn't yet issued the PCN, I got in my car and drove off (just as he was saying to me "Don't drive off"). The PCN hadn't yet been printed from what I could see. However, he took a photo of my car as I was pulling away. I hadn't heard anything off them and even threw my parking ticket away as I thought there was nothing to worry about.

Today over a month later I received a Notice to Owner in the post, in my father's name (he is the registered owner of the car - I am just a registered driver) asking for the full £50.

Any advice? I thought that if you drive off before the PCN is attached, you are clear.

Many thanks,

Katie.

The parking services are busy at the moment aren't they :rolleyes:


Katie appeal the notice, don't allow them to push you over.

It could and may well be the case that it's your word against the parking officer, as he couldn't have taken a photo of your dashbroad, therefore has no evidence of the time the ticket ran out.

I would appeal, this will also in most cases place the discounted charge on a hold for 21 days basis

Goodluck:j

peter_the_piper

VictorW3 wrote: »

I wonder if someone could clarify this but I too thought that a Parking Ticket had to be placed on the windscreen as usual by the traffic warden/attendant and that just noting down a car number from afar and then writing a ticket after the car has moved away is not validly served.

Was this/is this not the case?

Thanks.

Victor. 17/7/09

For quite q while now the law has been changed to allow just that scenario under the guise of a being too dangerous to attempt to serve it to the driver or place on windscreen. For more info see post 3. If you have been sent one of these it is better to start your own thread as it will get lost in with another post.

Gordon861

If he took a photo of your car as you drove away he doesn't have a photo of the car commiting the offence, not sure if the photo is actually required to prosecute you though. I think the camera is to show that the ticket has been issued correctly as well.

From my councils guidelines (to Parking Attendants)
re Photos
"In all cases photographs should be taken showing the vehicle in contravention, with the vehicles VRM in clear view and a photograph of the PCN placed on the vehicle."

Also
"At no time should a PA request that a driver waits to receive a PCN, or prevent a driver from moving a vehicle while waiting for the PCN to print out. If the PCN is printed it should be handed to the motorist or affixed to the windscreen."

And
"All logging procedures should take place adjacent to the vehicle in contravention. It should be immediately apparent which vehicle the PA is logging. If the driver returns to a vehicle during the observation period the PA should advise the motorist that the vehicle is only being logged at the moment and a PCN will not be issued if the vehicle is moved before the contravention can be confirmed."

I'm not sure how public these guidelines are hence I'm not going to state the source, but I would assume that most councils have a similar set of guidelines in force.

Neil_B

Doodles22 wrote: »

The parking services are busy at the moment aren't they :rolleyes:


Katie appeal the notice, don't allow them to push you over.

It could and may well be the case that it's your word against the parking officer, as he couldn't have taken a photo of your dashbroad, therefore has no evidence of the time the ticket ran out.

I would appeal, this will also in most cases place the discounted charge on a hold for 21 days basis

Goodluck:j

We seem to keep running into each other! Can you please not advise people rubbish when you don't know what you are talking about.

Appeal yes but on the correct grounds. That is, that a postal Reg 10 PCN should have been served. Service of a Notice to Owner is a nullity (however we haven't actually seen it I note).

A pic of your car driving away is actually favourable since it will likely show no PCN was served on the vehicle or driver.
-

Coblcris

I agree with Neil B.

katie84

Thanks Guys.

So how should I appeal it? What is the correct wording? That no PCN was actually receieved? And in the same letter should I ask for photos of the PCN on the windscreen? I don't know if he had taken photos of the dashboard before I got there, but I remember that the PCN hadn't yet been printed out. He was still inputting data onto the computer.

And should I write what happened? That he was in the process of doing it and then took a photo as I drove off? Or should I just play it dumb?

Thanks!

katie84

Guys this is the NTO. Thanks!