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freakyogre

sharkie wrote: »

Freakyogre, I hope you are a young person as us older ones have also found this out the hard way. From what I read into your post, you do not seem to understand what is happening around you. Performing your duty is only a small part of doing 'the job' and office politics and fitting in can be far more important in certain situations.

Secondly, working hard and long days makes the rest of the staff look incompetent as your output will be higher. You said that your colleagues were finished by 2pm, there is always 'something' to do, so you made them look bad, your manager look bad and yourself look bad for not finding that 'something', and then you admitted it and even then rubbed their face in it to boot. Your manager would definitely not tell her boss she could not find you anything to do. You have to use your initiative - keep a low profile, cause no waves, defend your position and tell them it is hard, but you are winning.

I'm really not sure if your post is serious or not?

I am quite young, but do realise that most workplaces are all about being a 'yes man' and just accepting what is going on around you. I used to work closely with around 30 people and managed to work alongside them well, even if I didn't get on with someone (which I think happened once!) I was professional enough to put that aside and get on with my job. I wouldn't say I don't understand what's going on around me at all.

With regards to there always being work, I have the same attitude. Again, in my previous job there were often times when people would say 'i've got nothing to do' and i'd give them a list of jobs. They kind of knew they needed doing, but weren't keen on them as they weren't the 'fun' things.
However, this is slightly different as i'd been there a while and knew what needed doing. When i've only been somewhere for 2 months and have obviously only been told limited things (must have been for them to say 'there's jobs I have you can do' but then not give them to me) it's a little bit difficult. I can't just make up jobs without the knowledge.

sharkie wrote: »

Please realise are always jobs to be done, and if they are not then you are of no use or value and you may not want to advertise this out loud, or make it obvious unless you really like claiming JSA. Take a book in your handbag to the toilet and read - if asked questions, just say "womans troubles", smoke breaks, tea breaks, lunch breaks, computer eye strain and rsi breaks, if religious time - go to afternoon mass, but be careful of surfing the net though!

Ask the company for a reference and you may find the reference is not as bad as you may think and forewarned is forearmed.

Only work your hours and if you want to work longer hours then get a second job elsewhere.

Again, not sure if that is serious? I go to work to work, not slack off and take unnecessary breaks because the work they promised, isn't there. I cannot sit around doing nothing, it really does drive me mad and that's maybe why I didn't 'gel' with them? Who knows.

ceridwen

Emmzi wrote: »

When you say explain in full in an interview - don't!! If you told me everything you had said here, I would think you were mad, it's not appropriate for that environment.

"They really didn't have enough work for me to do" is fine as far as explanations go, with maybe "I did draw this to their attention but there wasn't anything else to do. I'm not sure if they thought the work would take more time than it did" really says "Look how efficient I am!"

And that will do nicely.

That sounds about right for advice to me.

I can understand why you are analysing the situation word by word and action by action on here - been there/done that - but I think its best to stick to just one or two sentences as to "why" to anyone else (be it prospective employers or anyone else). You could maybe throw in a phrase or two (no more!) about how you are used to having a lot of work to do and thats how you like it - which will show you in a good light - ie as being a hard worker (theres not a lot of them around:rolleyes:).

Sounds like they broke every rule in the book - but, as you've not been there for very long at all, then it looks like they can get away with it unfortunately. The truth of the matter could well be that the other girl felt you were showing her up as a bit workshy - with your eagerness to have plenty of work to do. She probably saw you as a threat and !!!!!ed about you - but theres nothing you can do about this now I'm afraid.

Hope things work out well for you.

ceridwen

A further thought too - re why its wise to say words to the effect of "I am used to having lots of work to do and thats how I like it" at interview - it will serve a dual purpose:
- not only will it show you in a good light as being hardworking
BUT
- it will also make the person interviewing you aware that you arent the right person to take on for any job that barely exists in terms of workload (yep - there are - STILL - a noticeable number of jobs around that dont really have enough work to justify employing someone for them - but the reason they have been advertised & filled is in order to "justify the existence" of someone "further up the foodchain"). If you make it plain that you like hard work - then a manager who is just "maintaining their empire" will take on a lazy person instead of you - which will save you being put in this position again.

sharkie

GotToChange, I have not always been sharkie either and I see you took my advice too. I hope you got one of the biddies sacked when you left.:D

freakyogre things are hard. Being multi skilled and a good worker is not enough. Things tend to be more political, legal and devious now, rather than old fashiondly honest. I'm old school and have a load of 'stuff' at work and I perform a job. The new school crowd only carry with them coffee sachets and a pen, if they are not sacked soon they see it as a bonus - there is another job around the corner one day. They perform roles. £ depend upon what role they were hired to perform. The rate varies to the role and can increase on top of the current £ by £150 a day if more skillful duties are required from that same person.

freakyogre I have never seen your posting before. If I could pidgeon hole you, taking out my crystal ball, it would be working for the govenment/NHS/DSS/ etc. and probably put you in a trainee management program, but you may also need some social awareness training too (as in understanding your fellow human and the ability to relate to others and understand their needs - think the word is empathy). No, I do not work in personnel, just IT, so not an expert by any means and apologize if you find my post insulting - but it is a forum open to comments of all nature.

How we act, perceived ourselves and how we are perceived can very different and changes with each group we interact with. Because I see myself as a great bloke with a wicked sense of humour, does not mean you have the same opinion.

Your post seems confrontational and confrontational to the management and collegues. You ere there for two months and sounds like you made no friends or alliances and made enemies instead. I understand when you are turffed out it leaves one with a bitter feeling, but sound cold, mechanical.

I go to work to work, not slack off and take unnecessary breaks because the work they promised, isn't there. I cannot sit around doing nothing, ...

If your work requires breaks, you colleagues take break, they all go home on time, stack the shelves a lot, tidy the office, make tea for management, skivve, want you to wear a uniform, then it may be wise to do as they do, you are acting the role. If you want to get noticed and progress helping another department (usually sales) will usually do you a huge amount of good, but get your mangers permission! Currently you are sitting around doing nothing, and not getting paid for it - when in Rome.... rather than go native. You need to get on, to get on, else you get out, or get put out. Perhaps it not best to be the proverbial bird chirping away in warm cow dung?

mizzbiz

Sharkie, what you say is very very sad but so true. It's not admirabe anymore to be hardworking, conscientious and good at your job. You seem to have to be 'one of the lads', up for a laugh and do as they do.

I hate this aspect of working life because the one and only reason I go to work is to make a living, not to socialise, not to be !!!!!e*d about etc. I wish that I could just go into a workplace, do my work to the highest standard and leave, but against my nature i've had to adapt, join in to stupid conversations about boys, clothes, night out etc when I couldn't give two hoots about them. Those that don't do this are often to blame when work goes wrong.

One ex-employer of mine refused to hire candidates on ability alone, they had to "have good crack" - meaning they had to not complain when having the p*88 taken out of them on a daily basis. Those that didn't toe the party line, depsite being the most able and efficient of all their colleagues, were harangued and mistreated - most left of their own accord. The less able ones were more talented in one area - the ability to lick you know what to an unbelieveable degree. These are the ones that, sadly, get on in life very well.

ceridwen

Unfortunately - it does seem to be the case in many workplaces still that its more "important" to "big yourself up" and "fit in" than to actually get on with the job in hand....its absolutely totally STUPID and as frustrating "as all get out" for someone who actually wants to work and feel they are "making their contribution" and "doing a fair days work for a fair days pay (and thats another story altogether:rolleyes::cool:). Personally - I would much rather there were only "real" jobs around and one got paid "real" money (ie not "peanuts" for doing them) - but have long since had to accept that in ITRW this often isnt how it is....and dream on about a society where everyone does a useful/valued job of work and gets paid a fair income for doing it (and can come home at the end of the day thinking "yes - today I made a difference...I did something useful and interesting and really made a difference"...... (I wish....)

freakyogre

sharkie wrote: »

Your post seems confrontational and confrontational to the management and collegues. You ere there for two months and sounds like you made no friends or alliances and made enemies instead. I understand when you are turffed out it leaves one with a bitter feeling, but sound cold, mechanical.

I think anyone would be slightly confrontational when being faced with the sack for a reason they disagreed with (and wasn't the real reason). They had made their decision already, but that doesn't mean I am just going to sit there and accept it. That would be admitting they were right, when they weren't.
As far as i'm aware, I got on with most people there, there was of course the odd couple of people who I obviously didn't 'get on' with, hence why this has happened, but to me they were hardly professional about the way they went about it. Being ignored for 3-4 hours a day by someone who is meant to be in charge doesn't really help to create a friendly working environment.
My post probably sounded 'cold' and 'mechanical' because I was trying to include all the details only a few hours after it happened. Had I abbreviated it, no doubt the replies would have asked for further information.

freakyogre

Just to add another question on this (whether anyone will see it now!)

I am 99% sure I have found the job advertised again and this was posted on the 7th of July. The job desciption is exactly the same as the one I have and I know the person working for the recruitment agency is related to one of the people I worked for.

They had obviously already decided to get rid of me before Friday, so the meeting was a complete farce. Can they do this? I don't know the full rules on disciplinaries/dismissals, but surely by already advertising the job, I had no chance of being given another chance.

sharkie

freakyogre, I'm sure you are a lovely person, but it is time to move on. The only way that you could contest the ruling is discrimination.

You would have had more rights if you were there past the probation period. People can still be got rid off past this period by either being set up to fail, or promoted out of the job, theft, or timekeeping, competency.

I cannot fathom out why you would even want to think about going back as (a) they do not like you (b) they do not trust you (c) they do not value you (d) they can't even be honest to you (e) and they do not want you there.

Basically you were there less than a year and have no rights. Have a look at this post and have a search trough the forums and i'm sure you will unfortunately find similar. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1766397&highlight=probation

Just thought if you went through an agency, I wonder if the agency would only get paid by the company if you were working for the company for 3 months? perhaps you were just a cost cutting exercise?

Instead of a weeks salary I wonder if you were entitled to a months?

End of the day you are flogging a dead horse, as explained here http://askville.amazon.com/flog-dead-horse-tribal-wisdom-Dakota-Indians-passed-generation/DiscussionPost.do?requestId=8433556&commentId=8433578&commentNumber=1&pageNumber=1

Extra thought: next time bring your union rep in with you, or a friend to take minutes.

Sorry, but no good news!

ceridwen

Hmmm...well the thought re when agency commission kicks in is a possible explanation too. I know myself that agencies only expect their commission after the employee has been in their job a certain length of time (dont know how long that is though).

Re Sharkie's comments about "why would you want to go to a job where you're not valued/not wanted/etc....?" - presumably for the same reason as a lot of other people have to - ie in order to get a salary whilst waiting for a better option to come up. It IS thoroughly demoralising to go to a job that fits the "you're not valued/not wanted/you cant trust them (yes - I did get THAT the right way round...)" bill - but sometimes needs must and one just has to "apply virtual sellotape over ones mouth" and "bite tongue hard" and keep going in there. Unfortunately that isnt even an option anyway for O.P. - as she has virtually zilch rights due to having worked for them for less than a year.

I think what you're thinking of here O.P. is "redundancy" situations - rather than "dismissal" - as to whether they have the right to fill the job again so quickly. However - as we know - you've not been there long - so I guess they could probably get away with this even if they had made you redundant - rather than having dismissed you.

I presume you have no evidence that this was a "redundancy", rather than a "dismissal" - so guess its not worthwhile to even investigate whether a redundant position could be filled again so soon...

Good luck in the future.