No Rights When The Government !!!! Up!

cyril82

Why is it that we don't have any rights when Government bodies !!!! up?

i am self employed and for the second year in a row, despite submitting my tax return properly via an accountant i am being harassed for over £6,000 in tax i don't owe, being threatened with bailiffs and forced to pay out AGAIN to resubmit my tax returns.

When you try and reason with them or explain how they have made a mistake they are just very arrogant and today i was told "you have to pay or we will send bailiffs next week to seize your goods" when i replied that they couldn't do that as i had paid the tax in question via the cis scheme (which means tax deducted at source By larger contractor and will be showing as payment made on my file) the reply came, and i quote;

"we can because a court will always take our side in all cases":mad::mad:

So that means unlike other companies, government bodies are not burdened by proof, they can seize your goods even if you owe NOTHING!

IT IS WRONG:mad:

I had the same problem (well very similar) last year, the tax man tried to claim £5,000 which i had already paid and submitted returns for claiming i had underpaid on my previous 3 years tax returns, i knew this was wrong but in order to stop these scum bags from trying to seize my hard earned possessions i had to pay £500 to my accountant to resubmit my last three years returns and explain to their incompetent accountants where they had made a mistake in calculating my returns and pointing out that in fact the tax man owed ME £3,500!

all i got was a cheque for my £3,500 (not that i 'm complaining about that) but no letter confirming they had made a mistake, or that further action would not be taken and what’s worse, I DIDN'T GET A PENNY OF THE £500 I HAD TO PAY TO CORRECT THEIR MISTAKE BACK! Arrrggghhhh :mad:

And now i am having to go through a very similar situation again, am i going to have to do this every year?

Why is there no independent adjudicator for these people? I mean i think we have seen enough evidence that government bodies are not reliable enough to be left to their own devices, only last year when i was having problems i read a news story about a cab driver who was threatened with having his house taken off him by the tax man for a £11, million pound tax debt, surely it occurred to someone in the inland revenue to ask the question;

How can a cab driver owe £11Million in tax for one year? :mad:

What did they think he did? cab driver by day oil baron by night?? IDIOTS!!

I now have to pay again to resubmit last years return to stop their scummy little bailiffs from STEALING my possessions, and i don't care what they say about the law allowing it, if someone doesn't owe you money and you take their goods, court warrant or not, it is stealing and you are no better than the scummy drug addict who breaks into a house and steals from people.

WE need regulators who are independent to the government, we need then to regulate the benefits system, the expenses that scummy mp steal from us, to regulate the tax man and all other government agencies.

If their is no consequence for getting it wrong what incentive is their for them to ensure they get it right?

Rant over!

The high court ruling that says the inland revenue can do what they like and we can not take any action via the courts:
http://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/news_detail.cfm?iNewsID=181

Examples of why the government need regulating;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1187162/700-000-overcharged-great-council-tax-cover-up.html

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23711920-details/Boris+Johnson+dents+cycling+image+with+4,698+taxi+bill/article.do

fwor

I sympathise with your problem, but the idea that you should externally "regulate Government" is just wrong.

The principle behind government is that it must have self-regulation built into it.

If you were to create (and fund) a whole new unelected quango called "Ofgov" and give it the power to control government departments, you would effectively take control of government away from our elected representatives and give it to a body that answers (presumably) to nobody. If you gave it the power to fine government departments then you would be giving it the power to fine ~us~, as we are the ones that fund those departments. If you gave it the power to sack and promote staff, it would have control over who makes it to the top of those departments. How would you control such a powerful unelected "regulator"?

cash-magnet

I may be wrong with my thinking, but wouldn't these fees qualify as a business expense and therefore be chargable against the business, reducing the taxable amount you have to pay, plus there is your time fees for sorting this out as I'm sure anyone else would be charging to do what is required?

cyril82

fwor wrote: »

I sympathise with your problem, but the idea that you should externally "regulate Government" is just wrong.

The principle behind government is that it must have self-regulation built into it.

If you were to create (and fund) a whole new unelected quango called "Ofgov" and give it the power to control government departments, you would effectively take control of government away from our elected representatives and give it to a body that answers (presumably) to nobody. If you gave it the power to fine government departments then you would be giving it the power to fine ~us~, as we are the ones that fund those departments. If you gave it the power to sack and promote staff, it would have control over who makes it to the top of those departments. How would you control such a powerful unelected "regulator"?

Well, i was just ranting in the first post. I was very, very annoyed at having to deal with their incompetence again, two years running.

You raise some valid points but the situation as it stands is just not right.

As it stands the process in instances where the inland revenue overcharge a person or business for tax is far too expedited and does not allow any real time or process for appeal.

In my case i explained how, despite being self employed, my tax was deducted at source as is legally required under the cis self employment scheme which was created by the inland revenue, i pointed out that they could a see that payments were made to them directly just by looking at my tax records and that i had submitted my tax return so it should surely be down to them to prove or at least explain why they think i owe this money?

But no, all i get is a bill which states "income tax" and nothing else accompanied by a letter telling me to pay within seven days or face repossession of my goods.

I ring them and am told tough, “we can do what we want to”, and they are right as proven by the high court ruling that the news article in my first post links to.

When i suggested they hold off action for another few weeks while i appoint my accountant to handle the situation and attempt to find out what is wrong i am told “sorry no, we will go to court”!

Unlike private businesses the inland revenue don't need to take you to court to appoint bailiffs which means no opportunity to appeal or defend the claim for payment. They just apply for and are by default granted a warrant.

So the reality is that when a huge, over calculated bill drops on your matt you have to pay it! or risk having goods seized.

Many people could not afford to pay these over calculated bills and with no where to turn and no route to appeal will and do face wrongful repossession of goods and even their home.

It is wrong, if not a regulator we at least need a formal and fair route to appeal over calculated tax demands for many can not pay now and reclaim later.

So what choice do they have? you cant keep government bailiffs at bay as unlike bailifs acting on behalf of private companies tax bailiffs can break into your home.

i'm confident that i will sort my situation out my accountant will handle it and if i am wrong about not owing the money (i doubt it very much) i can pay anything that i owe.

However, what about those that can't pay and are facing having their goods seized for wrongly over calculated tax bills?

Do you really think we should just let them get on with it?

bb999

Why do you assume that it is HMRC who is wrong? It could be, and quite possibly is, your accountant who is at fault. Can you be CERTAIN that he sent in your tax return AND that it was received by HMRC
Before any talk of Bailiffs, recovery, etc many letters are written asking for a valid tax return to be sent in, so do not try to imply that HMRC are suddenly coming after you.

If your accountant charges you £500 just to resubmit a tax return I would be looking for another accountant.

Above all do not forget that whether you have used an accountant or not it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your tax return is completed correctly AND on time.

cyril82

bb999 wrote: »

Why do you assume that it is HMRC who is wrong? It could be, and quite possibly is, your accountant who is at fault. Can you be CERTAIN that he sent in your tax return AND that it was received by HMRC
Before any talk of Bailiffs, recovery, etc many letters are written asking for a valid tax return to be sent in, so do not try to imply that HMRC are suddenly coming after you.

If your accountant charges you £500 just to resubmit a tax return I would be looking for another accountant.

Above all do not forget that whether you have used an accountant or not it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that your tax return is completed correctly AND on time.

Thanks for reminding me that i am responsible for completing my tax return, I’ve only been self employed for 10 years... :rolleyes:

Overall your message is quite condescending and patronising and you didn't read all of my posts quite clearly.

To answer some of your points, Why do i "assume" HMRC are wrong? well firstly it is not an assumption it's a fact since they are claiming unpaid income tax, i earned the money under the cis scheme which legally requires the tax to be deducted at source, so therefore i can't owe them income tax, or at least it is very unlikely, plus i have had confirmation from my accountant that my tax return was correct and i owe nothing.

So what about him? the accountant?, could he be wrong as you suggest, well i employed this guy to sort out the mess i was in last year after some genius at HMRC reviewed and recalculated my tax for the previous 3 years arriving at an underpaid amount of £5,200 the guy that actually did the recalculation at HMRC, an accountant obviously, maintained he was right and my accountant had given me "very questionable" advise when he told me that after reviewing my last three years tax return i was actually owed money not in debt to the tax man, the HMRC accountant maintained his stance that he was right even informing me in my final phone call to him that "mark my words you are liable for this amount and will have to pay it"
Clearly one of his colleagues disagreed because the next day the post man dropped off a very nice check for £3,500 from HMRC, strange when i supposedly owed them £5,200.

So on balance that makes it my accountant 1 HMRC accountant 0 so if i had to bet on the outcome this time i'd be a fool to back against my guy.

And the reason he charged £500 was because he had to piece together 3 years accounts which i admit i hadn't kept entirely together, more fool me for thinking that once the tax man confirms receipt of your return and settles your overpayment that they are not going to come knocking after 3 years saying sorry, we want more money. I know now.

if i was alone in this i'd understand but the tax office are under charging and overcharging tax left right and centre be it income tax or council tax, the CSA can't handle the simple task of collecting payment FROM one person and forwarding it to another, so this attitude that "surely it is more likely to be your accountant who is wrong and not a trusty Government body" is rather naive and misguided.

Anyway, i sorted it last year and i was right, i will sort this out too, and i'm pretty sure i'll be right again.
But if i'm not of course i'll pay, i just needed a rant thanks for listening guys.

gordikin

Is this the same cyril from the ebay thread thingy that got carried away?

cyril82

gordikin wrote: »

Is this the same cyril from the ebay thread thingy that got carried away?

Possibly, however i don't know what you mean by "the ebay thread thingy that got carried away" so it's hard to be sure