Taxes favouring urban diesels.

Unleaded95

The current set up of low co2-low tax fails to take into account urban diesel problems.

I have a petrol car that gets good economy on a traffic free run but dire economy in traffic. It seems a petrol engine uses a lot of fuel per hour regardless due to mixture richness requirements at low revs. So either it runs leaner and greener at moderate revs and speed or rich on idle due to poor exhaustion of burnt gasses.

Diesel cars consume very little at idle relative to a petrol. I would expect a 1.9TDI to use much less fuel idling per hour than a 1-litre petrol.

Hence, for cost reasons one would be inclined to drive diesels around town.
For health reasons it would be preferable to have a vehicle emit more co2 in town if it meant the exhaust gas make up was basic co2 and water; so petrol is favoured.

Soot everywhere belching from diesel exhausts calls for "hawk-and-spit" every 5 mins at the roadside. In the past week standing on the pavement I have been sooted out by buses/New Focus TDCI/Passat TDI/Corsa CDTI coughed and had grit in my eyes. Some chavvy petrols that are overfuelled are even worse.

For around town normal petrols are clean once warmed up but thirsty.
Diesels are polluting but light on fuel.

Why should diesel and petrol have the same level of duty when a litre of diesel emits more co2. It is unfair that a petrol which is causing less health problems than a diesel should pay more duty to drive around town. DPFs are a change for the better but don't work well for town driven cars.
The congestion charge should be free for all petrol/diesel+DPF vehicles under 130g/km. LPG vehicles are so clean they should pay nothing. Overfuelled modified petrols should be banned.

Volcano

Unleaded95 wrote: »

For health reasons it would be preferable to have a vehicle emit more co2 in town if it meant the exhaust gas make up was basic co2 and water; so petrol is favoured.

CO2 and water? From petrol? There's a fair bit more in those exhaust fumes than just those two.

It is unfair that a petrol which is causing less health problems than a diesel should pay more duty to drive around town.

I'm not sure that there's any evidence that petrol is that much healthier than diesel. CO2 emissions are about climate change not human health.

Unleaded95

Volcano wrote: »

CO2 and water? From petrol? There's a fair bit more in those exhaust fumes than just those two.



I'm not sure that there's any evidence that petrol is that much healthier than diesel. CO2 emissions are about climate change not human health.

Well diesels are already having their co2 emmisions subsidised by petrols (diesel 2.7 kg per litre) vs (petrol 2.3 kg per litre). The fuel duty is the same however. Diesel should be 17% more.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Diesel-engined vehicles emit lower amounts of co2 than their petrol-based equivalents. How therefore does a petrol-based car subsidise a diesel-based car?

AdrianHi

Unleaded95 wrote: »

Well diesels are already having their co2 emmisions subsidised by petrols (diesel 2.7 kg per litre) vs (petrol 2.3 kg per litre). The fuel duty is the same however. Diesel should be 17% more.

Mmm, yes, but there is more energy per litre of diesel so CO2 output for energy provided is a better measure and favours diesel. Also you still get better mpg with diesel so CO2 for time engine is running / distance covered is going to be lower.
Not that I am defending the use of diesel engines around town where I beleive a small petrol engine is a better option than diesel for many reasons, soot being one of them. Diesels are for the open road.

trevormax

Unleaded95 wrote: »

Well diesels are already having their co2 emmisions subsidised by petrols (diesel 2.7 kg per litre) vs (petrol 2.3 kg per litre). The fuel duty is the same however. Diesel should be 17% more.

Why don't you go out and get a diesel car instead of complaining that petrol drivers are being stiffed and diesel drivers are getting away with not paying enough.

I got a diesel car because i have always found them to do more mpg than a petrol. I pay more per ltr than someone buying petrol already, whay should I pay a further 17% on top? If anything, fuel duty is too high for everyone and should be reduced.

People pay less at the pumps, have more money to go spend on things.
Costs to business' reduce due to lower transport costs so they can reduce the price of their items or can afford to hire more staff.

Rolandtheroadie

trevormax wrote: »

I pay more per ltr than someone buying petrol already, whay should I pay a further 17% on top?

I was able to get diesel on the M6 yesterday for 101.9. Unleaded? 102.9

thescouselander

Volcano wrote: »

I'm not sure that there's any evidence that petrol is that much healthier than diesel. CO2 emissions are about climate change not human health.

Actually there have been loads of studies that suggest Diesel is harmful to human health in built up environments due to particulate emissions. There's lots of info about this on the net.

Volcano

thescouselander wrote: »

Actually there have been loads of studies that suggest Diesel is harmful to human health in built up environments due to particulate emissions. There's lots of info about this on the net.

The emphasis with emissions (in this thread) is on CO2 which is not regulated in this country from a human health viewpoint. Emission testing as part of the MOT however for HC and CO, is.

flyingscotno1

Don't forget however that in this country it us only recently that diesel became cheaper than petrol- or indeed the same price. Previously diesels paid an extra £10 on tax, and last year paid 13p a litre more at the pumps than petrol.

Diesel through most of Europe is taxed lower- we are already 2nd highest in diesel tax and prices, whilst only 7th or 8th in petrol, and any increase kills commercial and truck industry, adds to transport costs on bus and trains - bad for jobs and economy. What ever way you do it, some person will be hit.

Even with an increase in taxation there is no real alternative but diesel buses, trucks and taxis which will mitigate the emissions from small diesel private cars. Even the vans which with the above will be the majority of diesel pollution in towns, aren't awash with petrol offerings and fleets like diesels.

New emission regs see particle filters and even Ad-Blu which is used in buses and trucks being added to reduce emissions. Petrol cars themselves aren't a barrel of laughs in town- smog over mostly petrol LA will show that- indeed the only solution would be to stop any combustion engine as all contain nasties- albeit diesel has less greenhouse nasties.

Keith

Unleaded95 wrote: »

Overfuelled modified petrols should be banned.

I love my modified petrol engine car, it spits flame on overrun, yet returns a higher MPG than my other car which is standard and much more modern.