getting Injectors cleaned

loofer

Are there any considerable benefits to getting fuel injectors cleaned?

The car in question is a 2001 VW Bora 1.9 TDI with Bosch PD Injectors. It's done over 150k and is regularly serviced with correct oil.

Up until about a year ago, I used to get a consistent 60 mpg but it has deteriotated to 48-50mpg even in the summer months. Changed several parts Temp Sender, MAF etc but no change.

There's a Bosch specialist near work so I'm going to ask them tomorrow but thought i would get some views here first.

AdrianHi

Another cheaper option to try first is to run at least 3 tanks of BP Ultimate Diesel, Shell V Power Diesel or add your own additive to regular diesel. I use Millers Diesel Sport 4 additive. This cleans and keeps things clean as well as boosting cetane rating (measure of how well fuel burns) to maximum usefull level. The side affect of this is better fuel consumption (for most cars of any age) even if the engine and fuel system is clean to start with.
The higher cost of BP Ultimate Diesel means you break even on cost in the end, Miller's I find is money saving.

If you still have problems after 3 tanks think about paying for further investigation.

jonathantimms

i wouldnt personally go to the expense of getting the injectors removed stripped etc, its going to end u causiung more problems than solving them

and probably cost you more that just getting a few less mpg

like said before run some additive through it, reset your trip and see how it goes, it may make a difference, but most likely a waste of money, as additives are simply a con (i was personally told that by a very well known additive brand rep when i worked in a main dealer) diesel is self lubricating, and already has additives in it to prevent carbon deposits

why you have replaced the temp sender and the mass air flow sensor god only knows????

these things would cause misfires before anything else, i can only think that you are a DIY know-nothing-at-all or you have been misadvised, at cost to yourself.

did you fit second hand parts??? and did you also know that most modern engine control units require resetting/reprogramming when a maf is fitted because of the way in which they work? even p reg micras require the diag plugging in to reset the data

old engines run less efficiently, END OF STORY, the bores wear, the piston rings wear, it loses a little compression (which diesel engines rely on to ignite) the turbo blades wear a little, causing less boost. yet the injectors are still pumping in fuel, there just isnt the air there to ignite with, so you get a slight lack of power that you dont notice at all, you just put your foot on the pedal slightly more, putting more fuel in, etc etc..

comprende? dont waste your time and money on having the injectors stripped and cleaned, dont waste your money on new injectors

and dont be suprised if the diesel specialist says "yeah the injectors will be clogged, they need cleaning" because guess what, they need to say that to get the business, if they said it was a 5% chance of being that at the cost of however much your never gonna get it done

AdrianHi

jonathantimms wrote: »

diesel is self lubricating, and already has additives in it to prevent carbon deposits

True, but all additives are not the same, just because he was peddling snake oil doesn't mean others aren't effective.
The likes of BP Ultimate Diesel, which is just a different additive package to regular diesel, have been independently tested and proven to keep the engine cleaner.

It's only going to cost a few pounds extra to try the Ultimate diesel for 3 tanks fulls, not a lot to loose and it might sort the problem.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

loofer wrote: »

Are there any considerable benefits to getting fuel injectors cleaned?

The car in question is a 2001 VW Bora 1.9 TDI with Bosch PD Injectors. It's done over 150k and is regularly serviced with correct oil.

Up until about a year ago, I used to get a consistent 60 mpg but it has deteriotated to 48-50mpg even in the summer months. Changed several parts Temp Sender, MAF etc but no change.

There's a Bosch specialist near work so I'm going to ask them tomorrow but thought i would get some views here first.

Are you experiencing any knocking on the engine? If not, I wouldn't think it worthwhile to have them cleaned. You could go the whole hog and have the springs and nozzles replaced, pop tested, and reinserted.

A Bosch service centre would be the ideal place to do this. Make sure you get new washers, and that you understand the torque-down procedure

loofer

Thanks peeps.

I've stopped using Tesco diesel and switched to Shell (regular diesel) for the last 3 months and aslo add some of that Millers Sport 4. No difference there.

I contacted a Bosch Service centre today, they aren't able to service PD injectors. Had a diagnostic test done after work instead. The guy said 'the engine management had switched off as a result of some fault being logged', Apparently it's a default safety mechanism. Sounds a bit dubious to me as I wouldn't expect the car to move if the engine management was shut down but he said that it's just so that the ECU can measure things like fuel, timing, temp, air etc. Engine would run but ECU wouldn't know at waht values for each of above so it may be chucking in more fuel in than needed.

Plausible?? hmm!!

pault123

loofer wrote: »

Are there any considerable benefits to getting fuel injectors cleaned?

The car in question is a 2001 VW Bora 1.9 TDI with Bosch PD Injectors. It's done over 150k and is regularly serviced with correct oil.

Up until about a year ago, I used to get a consistent 60 mpg but it has deteriotated to 48-50mpg even in the summer months. Changed several parts Temp Sender, MAF etc but no change.

There's a Bosch specialist near work so I'm going to ask them tomorrow but thought i would get some views here first.

Did they definetely use PD oil?

I use Redex in the fuel tank every other fill and give it a good blast on the motorway. Soot builds up quite easily if you drive it too gentle.

Do you drive low RPM a lot?

Have a look on TDI forums theres load of advice to prevent soot buildup

http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43



"I think the #1 reason for intake buildup is city driving. This car is long-legged and likes the open road. Also, driving low rpms all the time won't help. The engine should be kept in the power band... 2100-4000. Don't lug it."

"Cars driven like this will have more of a clogging issue. You need to run your car hard once in while to help blow all that crap out. Slow driving and low revs will contribute more soot. Just my .02."

"Yes there is alot more than just the way people drive. It mostly comes from the egr valve baking the oil thats in the intake. In my opinion driving a tdi at low rpms will contribute to more build up. If you open the car up once it a while it will help thats my only point. It will blow some of the soot out before it turns into sludge. A better ccv will help alot."

loofer

pault123 wrote: »

Did they definetely use PD oil?

I use Redex in the fuel tank every other fill and give it a good blast on the motorway. Soot builds up quite easily if you drive it too gentle.

Do you drive low RPM a lot?

Have a look on TDI forums theres load of advice to prevent soot buildup

http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43



"I think the #1 reason for intake buildup is city driving. This car is long-legged and likes the open road. Also, driving low rpms all the time won't help. The engine should be kept in the power band... 2100-4000. Don't lug it."

"Cars driven like this will have more of a clogging issue. You need to run your car hard once in while to help blow all that crap out. Slow driving and low revs will contribute more soot. Just my .02."

"Yes there is alot more than just the way people drive. It mostly comes from the egr valve baking the oil thats in the intake. In my opinion driving a tdi at low rpms will contribute to more build up. If you open the car up once it a while it will help thats my only point. It will blow some of the soot out before it turns into sludge. A better ccv will help alot."

Yes, I always provide my own oil just to make sure. Castrol EDGE 505.01 or even the newer 504/507 spec.

My driving is mainly commuting 13 miles each way of which 10 miles is motorway at about 5am so no traffic, just constant speed. To be honest I am a fuel efficency freak so I do drive at low RPM, by low I mean I change gear at about 2000rpm. I sometimes even drive at 40mph in 6th gear but that's only when I know the car can take it and it's not labouring the engine or messing with the clutch.

Once a week tho I do give it a short but good hard blast in third gear (almost hid redline) to alleviate the problem with soot build up. I've tried to clean out the EGR and inlet manifold but never got round to doing it.

AdrianHi

loofer wrote: »

Thanks peeps.

I've stopped using Tesco diesel and switched to Shell (regular diesel) for the last 3 months and aslo add some of that Millers Sport 4. No difference there.

I contacted a Bosch Service centre today, they aren't able to service PD injectors. Had a diagnostic test done after work instead. The guy said 'the engine management had switched off as a result of some fault being logged', Apparently it's a default safety mechanism. Sounds a bit dubious to me as I wouldn't expect the car to move if the engine management was shut down but he said that it's just so that the ECU can measure things like fuel, timing, temp, air etc. Engine would run but ECU wouldn't know at waht values for each of above so it may be chucking in more fuel in than needed.

Plausible?? hmm!!

I've heard of this kind of behaviour before on other motoring forums. Forget anything else you are doing until you get to the bottom of the fault(s) that is/are logged and have resolved it.

pault123

loofer wrote: »

Yes, I always provide my own oil just to make sure. Castrol EDGE 505.01 or even the newer 504/507 spec.

My driving is mainly commuting 13 miles each way of which 10 miles is motorway at about 5am so no traffic, just constant speed. To be honest I am a fuel efficency freak so I do drive at low RPM, by low I mean I change gear at about 2000rpm. I sometimes even drive at 40mph in 6th gear but that's only when I know the car can take it and it's not labouring the engine or messing with the clutch.

Once a week tho I do give it a short but good hard blast in third gear (almost hid redline) to alleviate the problem with soot build up. I've tried to clean out the EGR and inlet manifold but never got round to doing it.

i've read hundreds of posts on above forum and its generally accepted when the engine is warm shift at 2500-3000 minimum. I don't know how you manage 40 in 6th! :eek:

I occasionly use 5th gear for 40 but its usually short lived if the speed drops below.

My technique for clearing the soot is motorway 70mph but keep it in 5th gear for a good 10 minute run. If I add redex after a fillup and do the above I get a lot of soot out the exhuast for 2 minutes or so. I wouldn't go spending money on replacing injectors etc

Changing at 2000 ALL the time, and only doing a one off 3rd gear high rev doesn't seem enough to really get in the engines peak torque band and keep it clean.

(why not put your post on tdiclub?:T )

jonathantimms

yes plausible.

Its what is called limp home, or safety mode.

It will run the most basic it possibly can to prevent any form of damage to the engine.

loofer wrote: »

Thanks peeps.

I've stopped using Tesco diesel and switched to Shell (regular diesel) for the last 3 months and aslo add some of that Millers Sport 4. No difference there.

I contacted a Bosch Service centre today, they aren't able to service PD injectors. Had a diagnostic test done after work instead. The guy said 'the engine management had switched off as a result of some fault being logged', Apparently it's a default safety mechanism. Sounds a bit dubious to me as I wouldn't expect the car to move if the engine management was shut down but he said that it's just so that the ECU can measure things like fuel, timing, temp, air etc. Engine would run but ECU wouldn't know at waht values for each of above so it may be chucking in more fuel in than needed.

Plausible?? hmm!!