Train Penalty Fare "wrong route"

illraiseyoumine

.........................

KeithP

I know the rail ticketing system can be considered complicated, but surely the phrase via Southampton is quite easy to understand. It is after all, just plain English.
However, that aside, and using your interpretation, just which train were you planning to use which did eventually go through Southampton?

alanrowell

You booked a ticket from a to b via c, d & e and then decided to travel at a different time by a different route - and you wonder why you got fined.

Am I missing something?

jkdd77

illraiseyoumine wrote: »

This morning I was issued with a penalty fare of £64 for travelling on the wrong route. I booked my ticket in advance on June 9th from Salisbury to Brighton. On the ticket it said via Southampton, but I just thought that meant the train went through Southampton (yes very naive, but I was supposed to be changing at Cosham and Barnham - as said on the website - so I thought it was OK to change anywhere) So I got to the train station early, and took a train that changed at Clapham Junction. About 20 minutes into my journey I was issued with a penalty fare of £44 plus £20 fine, because I had only paid £30 - and a cost of a ticket from Salisbury to Brighton via Clapham was £74 or whatever.

According to the Conditions of Rail, Point 13,The route you are entitled to take
(d) The use of some tickets may be restricted to trains which take:
(i) routes passing through, or avoiding, particular locations;..... you will be liable to pay an excess fare. "

so yes, I was wrong.

but according to the 2002 Penalty Fare rules "An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare if this would conflict with the rights given to the person by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage."

and those rights are:

"44. Circumstances that are within a Train Company’s control
For the purposes of Conditions 42 and 43, circumstances that are within a Train
Company’s control include the negligent or wilful acts or omission of its, or a Rail
Service Company’s, staff or agents."


so is the below an act of wilfulness by the ticket man?

The ticket man was very, very unhelpful. At this point, I was sure that the train website said that the 6:06 to Brighton was the £30 ticket but I have now checked and it actually costs £70(ish). But I didn't know this at the time, and when I asked him about it, he told me he didn't know how the online system worked. I had a very important appointment at 10m which meant I had to be in Brighton by 9am so I could get there since I didn't know Brighton. He told me I could get off at Basingstoke ( I asked him how I would then get to Brighton as I am not very good with trains and he just told me he didn't know )
I was very, very upset by this point as my parents are in America and I have no money in my bank account (my mum ordered my ticket for me) so I was crying and I didn't really know what was happening. I was visibly upset and he just looked at me and went "What am I supposed to do?" in a really horrible, sarcastic way. So, he gave me a book and made me feel in my details. He kept asking me if I had any I.D or anything with my name on it and I said no (because I had put mymum's name since her name was on the tickets because she bought them) and was really short and nasty with me.
I'm not prone to crying in public either, which made it even worse! Someone on the train asked me if I was Ok, and i explained it to him. After signing my penalty fare, he said to the man "Do you think that's fair?" and the ticket man goes "No, I wouldn't want to pay it!"

You can't be charged a penalty fare for being "off-route" (as going via Clapham Junction is), therefore the ticket inspector acted unlawfully and you are not liable to pay the penalty fare.
DfT Penalty Fares policy (google it):

4.29 "Ticket routing. A passenger who has a ticket for the journey they are making, but who is using a route on which their ticket is not valid, may not be charged a penalty fare. The National Rail Conditions of Carriage allow the passenger to pay an excess fare to travel on a different route from that shown."

National Rail Conditions of Carriage;

13 (e) If you make your journey by a route other than those referred to in (a) and
(b) above, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess fare will be the
difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of the
lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have

entitled you to travel by that route.

You should go through the motions of filing an appeal (quoting the above rules), even though it is certain to be rejected as the "independent" appeals service is nothing of the sort (being owned by the train companies), and automatically rejects all appeals, regardless of validity, with standard template letters.

If you've already paid the money, then you will need to recover the money via the small claims court, although you have a certain win as they made an unlawful charge. Make sure to send them a "Letter before Action" first, giving them seven days to refund the Penalty Fare, or face litigation to recover your money.

If you haven't already paid the money, then, once your appeal is rejected, as it will be (don't be discouraged by this), write to the train company offering to pay the relevant excess between the 'Via Southampton' fare and the 'Any Permitted' fare in full and final settlement of the dispute. (The excess fare is lower if you only travelled "off route" in one direction- ask them to calculate this).

They will reject this, and threaten to prosecute you or take you to small claims court to recover the money- ignore every threat they make (or, better still, complain to the DfT about them)- they won't take you to court as they know they would lose.

They are bullies, who rely on customer not knowing the law, and folding under malicious threats. Don't give in, and don't pay up!

KeithP

illraiseyoumine wrote: »

As I explained:
I was going to take a train where I changed at Cosham and Barnham - this route said Via Southampton but it didn't change at Southampton.

And you didn't need to change at Southampton. If you had caught a Portsmouth train from Salisbury, that would've taken you via Southampton and on to Cosham where you could make your first change. Sounds like you got on the wrong train at Salisbury.

illraiseyoumine wrote: »

And Southampton is on the way to Clapham...hence the confusion.

What?
Southampton is on the way to Clapham...
from Salisbury?

dzug1

illraiseyoumine wrote: »

As I explained:
I was going to take a train where I changed at Cosham and Barnham - this route said Via Southampton but it didn't change at Southampton.
And Southampton is on the way to Clapham...hence the confusion.

Southampton is NOT on the way to Clapham.

Sounds like being geographically challenged is the main problem