Which boiler type?

robowen

We're going to do the same but have come up with a different solution. Use a system boiler which is cheaper than a combi boiler, fork out for a condensing one if you want real efficiency. Couple this to a high pressure water tank such as a Megaflo. The high pressure tank will replace your copper water tank in the airing cupboard and you can get rid of all your tanks in the loft and you get mains pressure hot water!! This is the preferred solution if you want good showers and negligible pressure drop when more than one tap is on.
It ain't cheap but what price comfort for the next 20 years.

What you are talking about is commonly known in the trade as "Thermal storage Hot Water"

Bit more expensive to fit, but provides gallons of hot water at mains pressure.

This is my choice of hot water supply. I have 3 boys, and need lots of hot water, as they play football/sports.

You have your boiler(we'll come to type in a min), and you also have a storage tank. No tanks in the loft required.

Hot water is stored in the cylinder, and continually heated by way of the boiler and also immersion heater/s.
The incoming cold water is passed through tubes inside the tank and is heated along the way, giving you hot water at mains pressure.
Because this is unvented, you must have approved plumbers to do the job.

Now the boiler.

I'm not so sure about condensing boilers.
In order to make a condensing boiler work, you have to reduce the return temperature between the flow and return pipes.
In order to do this, It was advised that you must oversize the radiators, so you end up with bigger rads than you need, therefore the boiler is chugging away trying to heat these big rads and burning gas instead of saving gas.
Plus , you need a special condensate drain.

If the boiler is not commissioned as per MFinstructions, it is not going to be efficient.   :-/
I have not seen a condensing boiler YET, that has been fitted correctly.   :-/

My supplier constantly moans about condensing boilers being returned. :-/
Talk to the suppliers first before buying, see what feedback they have about them.

alanobrien

What you are talking about is commonly known in the trade as "Thermal storage Hot Water"
Because this is unvented, you must have approved plumbers to do the job.

Now the boiler.
I'm not so sure about condensing boilers.
In order to make a condensing boiler work, you have to reduce the return temperature between the flow and return pipes.
In order to do this, It was advised that you must oversize the radiators, so you end up with bigger rads than you need, therefore the boiler is chugging away trying to heat these big rads and burning gas instead of saving gas.
Plus , you need a special condensate drain.

If the boiler is not commissioned as per MFinstructions, it is not going to be efficient.   :-/
I have not seen a condensing boiler YET, that has been fitted correctly.   :-/

This is getting interesting

I undrstand there are now 2 types of thermal store systems available vented and unvented. I have been looking at the unvented megaflo etc but vented is new to me
Link for info;

http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/Mains_Pressure_Hot_Water_Systems.htm

They refer to the vented as a "battery" store and it does imply the need for a cistern to fill it but then goes on to state no tanks in the loft confusing that.

It would be interesting to understand the pros and cons for each of those but i am guessing the unvented would cost more to install as it needs addisitonal safety equipment.
No idea how running costs would compare.

As regards condensing boilers the efficiency can only as good as the system it is attached to. I mean if the temp drop is not there there it will never condense but thats an easy thing to check but best to make clear with the installer before the thing is fitted.

Of course how its achieved is another thing, oversize rads seems to be recommended as does changing pump speed
not heard anything about this from any installer yet !

One guy did say that the drain could be a soakaway, he said it was non preferred but possible. Not checked that out yet.

Not fitting them correctly does not bode well for the future of condensing boilers in the uk

Then again anything would be more efficient than my 20+ year old thorn boiler.

robowen

Get yourself a Worcester Bosch 28I Junior while you are still allowed to have it fitted.

Excellent boiler. Not much to go wrong. Pumps out hot water likes nowt else.

(wouldnt use it if you want sports/power shower though)

delluver

Party_Animal wrote:

I might be wrong but I'm led to believe that all new boilers must be condensing ones in the new year.

Can you get a regular condensing boiler then, that isn't a combi for a regular traditional system?

plumb1_2

Snowboarder747 wrote:

From an economic perspective you've got to be better off with a Combi Boiler.

That is not the case.

plumb1_2

delluver wrote:

Can you get a regular condensing boiler then

Yes you can.

plumb1_2

alanobrien wrote:

They refer to the vented as a "battery" store and it does imply the need for a cistern to fill it but then goes on to state no tanks in the loft confusing that.

The indirect vented will need a tank, the unvented will not.


my choice unvented

alanobrien wrote:

It would be interesting to understand the pros and cons for each of those but i am guessing the unvented would cost more to install as it needs addisitonal safety equipment.

The unvented would cost more to install, but better economy and preformance

alanobrien wrote:

As regards condensing boilers the efficiency can only as good as the system it is attached to. I mean if the temp drop is not there there it will never condense but thats an easy thing to check but best to make clear with the installer before the thing is fitted.

Very true, not many condensing boilers run in the condensing mode, as the return temp to high.

alanobrien wrote:

Then again anything would be more efficient than my 20+ year old thorn boiler.

Thorn Apollo, 1st boiler i ever installed, and a 1 pipe system( no flow and return):eek: 60 plus houses


My choice would be Condensing boiler(not combi) on a presurised system(no tanks needed) and a presurised termal store( ie megoflow/ariston type)again no tanks needed.

Fit a CL170HE or the 210 model

delluver

Hi, I have just moved into a 2 bed semi with one bathroom. Ideally I need to get a replacement boiler as it's over 16 years old and has broken down. I'm wondering if it's best to just replace the old regular boiler with a new condenser regular boiler, or to have the system changed to a combi system, and have a new condenser combi put in. I am aware of the pros and cons of each, but still can’t make up my mind. I don’t like change you see, hehe.

I have been doing research into the traditional system we have, and I see that the the Worcester Bosch Greenstar Ri range of regular boilers I like are designed for connection to a fully pumped heating and hot water system i.e. Y or S plan. I have been told my existing heating system may be of a single pipe design so it will be necessary to convert it to a two pipe system if I decided that I wanted that boiler, and not to go for a combi system. The more I look into things, the more there is to consider. Ideally I’d like a programmable control, but I’m not sure the Greenstar Ri’s can be used with one or if they can, does it need to be separate from the boiler, and if so is that an extra cost? I am so tired from getting my head around all this stuff, hehe. Looks like a combi might be the way to go depending on my mains water pressure, but I wanna look at all the possibilities before I part with the money that I don't have right now, hehe. Any suggestions, opinions are most welcome.

P.S. I have a vented