US economy in free fall - green shoots extinguished

Graham_Devon

1echidna wrote: »

Unemployment is a lagging indicator and these figures are not necessarily indicative of an economy in free fall. Dow is not behaving as if a new disaster was happening. As for green shoots they may or may not be there.

Dows not open yet.

It's been falling for a good couple of weeks now, the same sort of pattern we saw when the recession first hit but before the realisation of just how bad it was going to hit. Not big falls, but very jittery. The FTSE has been doing the same.

It may mean nothing, but that was also said last time! Remember the day it dropped over 5% and it was all over the news....they then realised!

inspector_monkfish

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Dows not open yet.

Yes it is!

---

14:31 02Jul09 DOW DOWN 89.48 POINTS, OR 1.05 PERCENT, AT 8,414.58 AFTER MARKET OPEN
14:32 02Jul09 S&P 500 <.SPX> DOWN 10.47 POINTS, OR 1.13 PERCENT, AT 912.86 AFTER MARKET OPEN
14:32 02Jul09 NASDAQ <.IXIC> DOWN 24.37 POINTS, OR 1.32 PERCENT, AT 1,821.35 AFTER MARKET OPEN
14:36 02Jul09 US STOCKS SNAPSHOT-Wall St opens lower, hit by jobs data
14:38 02Jul09 NASDAQ <.IXIC> FALLS 2 PCT

NEW YORK, July 2 (Reuters) - U.S. stocks opened lower on
Thursday after payrolls data showed more Americans than
expected lost their jobs in June, dimming hopes that the
economy may be heading out of recession quickly.

The Dow Jones industrial average <.DJI> dropped 108.98
points, or 1.28 percent, to 8,395.08. The Standard & Poor's 500
Index <.SPX> fell 11.39 points, or 1.23 percent, to 911.94. The
Nasdaq Composite Index <.IXIC> shed 24.91 points, or 1.35
percent, to 1,820.81.

Graham_Devon

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

Yes it is!

---

14:31 02Jul09 DOW DOWN 89.48 POINTS, OR 1.05 PERCENT, AT 8,414.58 AFTER MARKET OPEN
14:32 02Jul09 S&P 500 <.SPX> DOWN 10.47 POINTS, OR 1.13 PERCENT, AT 912.86 AFTER MARKET OPEN
14:32 02Jul09 NASDAQ <.IXIC> DOWN 24.37 POINTS, OR 1.32 PERCENT, AT 1,821.35 AFTER MARKET OPEN
14:36 02Jul09 US STOCKS SNAPSHOT-Wall St opens lower, hit by jobs data
14:38 02Jul09 NASDAQ <.IXIC> FALLS 2 PCT

NEW YORK, July 2 (Reuters) - U.S. stocks opened lower on
Thursday after payrolls data showed more Americans than
expected lost their jobs in June, dimming hopes that the
economy may be heading out of recession quickly.

The Dow Jones industrial average <.DJI> dropped 108.98
points, or 1.28 percent, to 8,395.08. The Standard & Poor's 500
Index <.SPX> fell 11.39 points, or 1.23 percent, to 911.94. The
Nasdaq Composite Index <.IXIC> shed 24.91 points, or 1.35
percent, to 1,820.81.

LOL it is NOW. I was about 5 mins behind

To be fair, I'm normally 10 mins behind!!

1echidna

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Dows not open yet.

It's been falling for a good couple of weeks now, the same sort of pattern we saw when the recession first hit but before the realisation of just how bad it was going to hit.

Nothing like the falls we saw when markets were at their mot volatile. Dow is well up on its low point. Why the disaster mongering? Can't see that a bit of gentle decline for a couple of weeks is going to be vastly accelerate by these employment figures. Nothing like the wholesale decimation of financial institutions that hit the markets a year or so ago. Is there news of this type in the pipeline?

inspector_monkfish

graham_devon wrote: »

lol it is now. I was about 5 mins behind

no you weren't .......... You were 6 minutes after it had already opened

Graham_Devon

1echidna wrote: »

Nothing like the falls we saw when markets were at their mot volatile. Dow is well up on its low point. Why the disaster mongering? Can't see that a bit of gentle decline for a couple of weeks is going to be vastly accelerate by these employment figures. Nothing like the wholesale decimation of financial institutions that hit the markets a year or so ago. Is there news of this type in the pipeline?

I'm not saying the falls are anything like the DOW at its low point. Re-read my post and I stated I remember it being like this BEFORE the realisation, hence before the big falls.

I'm also not disaster mongering. I have just stated about the post you just took out of context i'm looking forward to stability.

We can use history to base our thoughts without having to be disaster mongering. It's just discussion and my opinion.

Please read and don't take posts out of context as it just means I gotta explain that I never said what you are saying I said, plus it's fairly annoying

Graham_Devon

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

no you weren't .......... You were 6 minutes after it had already opened

No I wasn't, 5 mins 57 seconds

1echidna

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm not saying the falls are anything like the DOW at its low point. Re-read my post and I stated I remember it being like this BEFORE the realisation, hence before the big falls.

I'm also not disaster mongering. I have just stated about the post you just took out of context i'm looking forward to stability.

We can use history to base our thoughts without having to be disaster mongering. It's just discussion and my opinion.

Please read and don't take posts out of context as it just means I gotta explain that I never said what you are saying I said, plus it's fairly annoying

Sorry to take you out of context. My point was that the realisation occurred in the context about real concern about the basic viability of the financial system. There was a fear factor brought about by unprecedented problems which goes way beyond anything apparent in what is happening now. More likely we will (if things get worse) get the drip, drip, drip factor of continuing bad news and a slow decline.

I agree you are perfectly right to say what you think will happen.

chucky

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

the day is still young....

ended down only about 2.6% - nothing too major.

1echidna wrote: »

Sorry to take you out of context. My point was that the realisation occurred in the context about real concern about the basic viability of the financial system. There was a fear factor brought about by unprecedented problems which goes way beyond any thing apparent in what is happening now. More likely we will (if things get worse) get the drip, drip, drip factor of continuing bad news and a slow decline.

it read it that way too - any time the market has a slight reverse people start jumping on the band wagon that the market is going to crash again and that they have been predicting it to happen. they fail to understand that the equity markets go up and also go down.

the FTSE is pretty much flat today. there are some good "bargains" in there to picked up.
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/3/default.stm