Banks / Cash Machines

Poppy9

This issue IS very over-blown, in the press and by Nationwide in its press releases.

OK, there are many more charging ATMs.  But also there are more free ATMs.

Very few ATMs indeed have gone from free to charging.  Most of the new charging ones are in more remote locations where it is simply not financially viable to provide a free machine.  And they are generally supplementary to the existing free machines, rather than in their place.

Anyone who is on benefits and has to be paid via a bank account can get the money out free at a post office, if they choose one of the many free accounts which can be operated at the post office.

Post offices may "have limited opening hours" and some may be closing, but there are many times as many post offices as there are banks from all the banks put together.  They are normally open 9 - 5.30 in the week and Saturday mornings.

If you are a benefit claimant who doesn't work, I think you can manage to turn up at the post office - EXACTLY as you had to do when you got a giro cheque - to get the cash from the account.  What exactly is supposed to have changed which makes this HARDER for people?  Er ... nothing.  Just that now, you can choose to take the money in smaller amounts rather than once a fortnight.

If the government produces some knee-jerk legislation on this (and I very much doubt they will, although with their track record on knee-jerks I am not 100% sure) all that will happen is that charging ATMs will disappear.  Consumer choice will be diminished, not improved.  No charging ATMs will become free ATMs.

The analogy with printing digital photos WAS a good one.  When you withdraw money, if you are charged, it's for the service of providing an ATM with money in it where and when you want to use it.  You are not paying for the money, which is yours anyway.  There's no reason why banking SHOULD be free - it's a service like any other - and free banking (as previously stated) is paid for in other ways e.g. by paying c**p interest rates on current accounts, which people are no longer willing to tolerate.

I think you are being a bit harsh here. You ask why banking services should be free. Well do you have a choice if you use the service? I certainly don't. My employer only pays by DD to a bank/building society account. The Govt. pays Child benefit the same way as does the inland revenue for tax credits. Therefore I have to allow the banks to use my money to lend other people and you expect me to pay for this as well. The whole banking system is a con. We let them use our money for free to lend to other people at a premium. If everybody tried to withdraw their money on the same day from all the banks they would not be able to pay as they don't physically have all our money.

Even in city centres it is getting harder to find cashpoints. I recently went for lunch in a bar in the City Centre. You had to pay with your order. I offered my card to pay as I only had £10 but they didn't accept cards or cheques, only cash. I asked where the nearest cashpoint was and was told their was a charging one (£1.75) in a nearby newsagent or a free one 10 minutes walk away on the other side of town. There are loads of time I unexpectedly find myself needing more cash outside PO hours. School trips, window cleaner an ice cream on a nice healthy bike ride/walk!!!

alexj2002

They should be free because they were brought in as a way of saving money for the banks from the old go into your bank and withdraw method (which involves several more people to employ). This I remind you was free in nearly all cases.

crana999

Uh, yes, but you didn't expect to find branches of your bank waiting for you to withdraw your cash in out-of-the way locations etc, did you?

Saying we don't have a choice about using banking systems is also interesting.

with your examples, you could in theory quit your job, find one that paid you in cash, choose not to spend your child benefit, and so on. but it's highly unlikely that you would. you do HAVE choices, they just aren't very convenient choices.

Poppy9

Uh, yes, but you didn't expect to find branches of your bank waiting for you to withdraw your cash in out-of-the way locations etc, did you?

Saying we don't have a choice about using banking systems is also interesting.

with your examples, you could in theory quit your job, find one that paid you in cash, choose not to spend your child benefit, and so on. but it's highly unlikely  that you would. you do HAVE choices, they just aren't very convenient choices.

Re branches waiting for us to withdraw. When I started work 23 years ago it was part of my condition of service that I was paid 4 weekly in arrears by DD. As a LA employee there were still people on weekly cash but these have over the years been forced onto DD. This has lead to the dependency on banks which at the time was ok because we had a small sub office at the Civic Centre offices 3 days a week. Aside from this there was an abundance of branches which as far as I can remember all had cash point machines. Now we have no sub office at Civic Centre, no cash machine and branches have all become pubs in City Centres and closed in Suburban and Rural areas.

If I quit my job I would be hard pressed to find one that would pay me cash. Lowly paid, part time staff working for Local Authorities i.e. cleaners, cooks etc all have to accept DD. Friends and family working in the private sector (even weekend jobs) have to have DD. Your point about not collecting my Child Benefit and Tax credit is plain stupid. I would be paying too much tax because instead of increasing my tax code the inland revenue (aka The Govt.) decided to put more business the Banks way. Quick trawl of the net for vacancies paying cash drew a blank. This leaves me with going onto unemployment benefit - which I don't think I would be entitled to because I made myself unemployed. Again only paid by DD. The result is we starve. Great choice - somewhat inconvenient :-X

jellyhead

what about withdrawing your money as cashback when you go to the supermarket? that's free.

Poppy9

Yes it is now but how long before Supermarkets start charging for this? A local shop by me already does.

jellyhead

local shops probably can't afford the charges :-( my local shop charges for you to use a card too, 19p each transaction. hopefully the supermarkets will continue to offer a free cashback service :-/

i think the ATM's that charge aren't outside banks, they're in remote locations such as motorway services and theme parks, they probably all belong to a company rather than the banks themselves so if we stopped using them they'd just close them methinks ...

alexj2002

Tesco's and co shouldn't start charging for cards because it is so much easier for them to take than cash which has to be counted, give change which has to be counted etc. to swipe a card and someone to press 4 buttons.

crana999

Poppy9, my point WAS that it would be ludicrously inconvenient and stupid to do the things I suggested, such as not claim your CB! i.e. you have a choice, it's just a really inconvenient one.

re: later posts on the thread, I seem to remember some rule that you aren't allowed to charge people more for paying with a card. Am I making this up?

Poppy9

Sorry Crana999 I thought you were saying I did have a choice - which I don't.

With regard to charging more for card payment there is no law against companies doing this. However in order to accept credit/debit cards you have to have a contract with a bank. In this contract they supply the equipment for which you pay monthly rental. ie. a small sole trader will pay £15 per month for rent of swipe machine plus 3% of credit card transaction or 30p per switch transaction. The contract (minimum of 12 months) states you are not allowed to charge more for Card transactions or discount cash transactions. Big companies like Ikea are charging more for Credit card payments though because they have huge bargaining power with banks and so will not sign upto this clause.

Once again the little man loses out!