Tenancy not covered by housing act - what notice do we need to give?

tbs624

Interesting (Edit: Following Cissi's last post - haven't read N79s latest yet!)

If you sign a contract as an AST, for a tenancy that cannot be an AST, then you can perhaps argue that the terms of it were intended to apply *for the fixed term*, but I really am not sure that Shelter have got it right here. With the usual non-AST tenancy, a T either has to leave at expiry or sign up for a new fixed term period. You stayed put and did not sign up to a new contract. They continued to accept your rent on a monthly basis.

Firstly, if you were on an AST, and continued into a stat periodic, then you would only have to give one month's notice, regardless of any terms which the LL/LA sought to put in his contract. Secondly, as already mentioned in my post above, you are now under a common law tenancy and common law applies =notice periods tie in with rental periods unless a valid contract says otherwise. I do not see how you can possibly be held to terms in a contract that could not actually exist in law

It is *always* best to seek further clarification, esp on any more complicated issues, hence why I mentioned Shelter in the other thread.

However, you may find it helpful to post over on LLZone, as Silvercar has suggested, and see what responses you get. The most useful/reliable posts are like to come from Jeffery Shaw , who is a solicitor specialising in LL&T issues. If you do get a response from him let us know what he says - am happy to be corrected if my interpretation is wrong

tbs624

Cissi - do post your question up on LLzone for further clarification when you get chance because having done a quick search just now, I hit this query with this reply from the aforementioned Jeffery.

Cissi

tbs624 wrote: »

Cissi - do post your question up on LLzone for further clarification when you get chance because having done a quick search just now, I hit this query with this reply from the aforementioned Jeffery.

Oh wow, superb! Looks like an almost identical situation to mine, and although the implications are a bit scary (we should have vacated the property at the expiration of the fixed term :eek:) the end result looks pretty good - as long as we can convince our LL that this is indeed what should apply.

I will post over there as well, thank you!

N79

tbs624 wrote: »

Cissi - do post your question up on LLzone for further clarification when you get chance because having done a quick search just now, I hit this query with this reply from the aforementioned Jeffery.

Interesting - thanks for posting this. So it appears that the only time I actually partially agree with Shelter the majority expert opinion is against us.

Good news for the OP - provided they can convince their LL of its essential truth! Cissi, if you intend to leave after just 1 months notice I would prepare for a fight to get your deposit returned (which you shoudl win) unless you can reach an agreement with them over notice.

Cissi

For anyone interested, this is the reply I got from Jeffery Shaw: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=142830&postcount=3

Now to convince our LL...But first we need to make sure that we actually do manage to exchange contracts on our purchase by Friday!

tbs624

Cissi wrote: »

Oh wow, superb! Looks like an almost identical situation to mine, and although the implications are a bit scary (we should have vacated the property at the expiration of the fixed term :eek:) ..

Not too scary, since this LA continued to accept your rent payments every month, thereby agreeing to the tenancy I'd love to know who this LA is ( appreciate it wouldn't be advisable to name at the moment) but oh my goodness, let their numerous errors be a warning to any newbie LL who thinks that they can simply pay an LA and all will be well.

I agree with N79 that the LA/LL *may* prove difficult over your tenancy deposit: many LAs seem to have an ego the size of Jupiter and don't take kindly to being shown the error of their ways, least of all by tenants occupying the properties supposedly managed by them.

G iven the deposit sum involved, you may want to perhaps consider whether it would be worth your while having someone like Jeffery on professional standby, just in case? If the LA does decide to play hardball, you could make it clear that you'd go for maximum publicity: I'm sure the other LLs and Ts on their books would be interested, as would any potential new business they have lined up. If you do not already have the LLs name and address, ask the LA in writing for it now or go to the Land Registry online and download the infromation from there. That way you will be able to deal direct with the LL, should the need arise, making him/her fully aware of how lacking this LA's knowledge is.

In the meantime, cover yourselves by photographing anything and everything when you leave so that you have clear evidence of the property's condition.

When it's all over and you're safely ensconsed in your new home do come back and let us know who the LA is. You could even make a suitable post at www.allagents.co.uk....

Cissi

LOL, yes, I'll keep quiet for now but the "maximum publicity" angle may be interesting later... We do foresee a battle to get our deposit back, but we're pretty well prepared, with a file several inches thick cataloguing a loooong saga of botched repairs etc.

The LA doesn't actually manage the let, they only draw up the contracts every year (presumably for a hefty fee) - apart from that the LL prefers to manage everything himself - badly... We didn't have a gas safety check for over 2 years, at least he's now up to date with that, but I don't think he really knows what he's doing!

Cissi

What really surprises me about the LA is that this can't be an unusual situation in our area, as most 3-bed houses around here fetch at least £2k/month in rent! How on earth can they get away with being so poorly informed

tbs624

Cissi wrote: »

...How on earth can they get away with being so poorly informed

The vast majority of tenancies just plod uneventfully through to expiry ( although it sometimes doesn't appear that way when you trawl this board ) and it's only when something goes wrong and/or a T has just cause to challenge something that these errors get picked up.

Many of the larger privately let student properties also cannot be ASTs because of the rent level but that fact doesn't seem to stop ignorant LLs and LAs from trying to sign the tenants up to one.

Some LLs are daft enough to download a freebie tenancy agreement off t'interweb without understanding the background legislation or , as with yours, rely on their LAs for their contracts etc, yet *absolutely anyone* can set themselves up in business as an LA, with no minimum level of education or training required .

I note that you say over on the other forum that you'll be becoming a LL yourself : you may want to join up to Tessa Shepperson's Landlordlaw site, or the NLA or RLA ( national LL associations) . Tax deductible membership fees and much useful guidance & information. Having experienced all of this lot from the tenants side, I'm sure you'll be the sort of LL you wished you'd had