Explaining pro rata Bank Holidays

Savvy_Sue

Can anyone help me explain how this works in words of one syllable? I've got it clear in my own mind, but other staff are telling me they think I'm wrong ...

1. Employee 1, works 37.5 hours per week, 5 shifts per week over 7 days, including public holidays. Holiday entitlement 33 days (25 plus 8 bank holidays).

2. Employee 2, works 37.5 hours per week, 4 longer shifts per week over 7 days, including public holidays. Holiday entitlement 26.5 days (20 plus 6.5 bank holidays, rounded up to the nearest half day).

Employee 2 feels aggrieved that they 'only' get 6.5 bank holidays, and says that because they work 'full-time', they should get 8 days. I say that because they work compressed hours, they are paid more for each day than Employee 1, and it's the number of days which matters.

I've pointed out that they only have to book 4 days' leave if they want a week off, and they agree that the 20 days' 'normal' leave is right. I've explained that they can book any 26.5 days as leave, and this may include all or none of the actual bank holidays, and that they have 3 days each week when they don't have to work, compared to 2 days for someone working a 5 day week.

I've shown them the ACAS booklet, which is where it described such patterns as 'compressed' hours. I've even demonstrated the calculation in hours, but they are still not convinced and think they are missing out somehow!

I'm not missing anything, am I?

LittleVoice

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

. . ., but they are still not convinced and think they are missing out somehow! /QUOTE]

I wish you luck. It's probably not that they think they are missing out but that they feel they are missing out. Logic doesn't help too much if that is the case.

Bobl

You are correct. Unfortunatley people always want it both ways. I have had experience of people who work 4 days a week asking for a day off because we had to send staff home on a day when they were not working, as well as people who complained that they were on leave when we sent people home so they should not have to take a days leave.

I doubt if you will ever convince them, just give them your calculation and leave it at that. If they are that agrieved they should contact HR or their Manager.

paulwf

Could you present their holiday as a number of hours or number of weeks instead of using the days format? That should show both employees get the same, the problem with using the 4 days over 5 working pattern is that if you use days it skews everything.

Reds-on-Sea

so if (for argument's sake) she could condense all her weekly hours into 1 day, would she still expect to get the same number of days as you - in effect being able to book off 33 "weeks" a year? tell her to think of it as hours, you're both entitled to the same number of paid hours off a year.

LindsayO

Would it help to acknowledge that their viewpoint has some merit. There are a number of ways that bank holidays could be combined with part-time or compressed shifts. If we assume a 5 day work week, then there are 5x52=260 potential working days. One approach would be to deduct the actual bank holidays from that so that there are 250 working days and use that as the basis for calculating everything.

Of course this is not actually how iis done (at least that is what everyone here is saying) but it's not an unreasonable approach. If you put it to them like that it might help. So your not trying to argue that your way is the best way, or the way that makes most sense, just the way it is actually done.

Savvy_Sue

Bobl wrote: »

I doubt if you will ever convince them, just give them your calculation and leave it at that. If they are that agrieved they should contact HR or their Manager.

Sadly, I am the admin side of HR, the manager who oversees this side of our work is away for an extended period, and their line manager is as number blind as they are. Although the line manager may well say they have no idea how I reached my conclusions, but if I say that's what it is, then that's what it is. If only everyone would be so trusting ...

I can't understand how they can 'see' how it works for 'normal' leave, but not for Bank Holidays. I don't know if it would help if in future we just said "you have X days' leave" and avoided all reference to BHs, but we wanted to make it clear that although staff WILL be required to work some BHs they weren't missing out on the leave, it's allowed for in their total leave entitlement.

I may try LindsayO's approach next time I'm in the office or if the subject is raised again, although because the work place has to be staffed 365/24/7 the sums are slightly different, and the fact that there ARE bank holidays is almost an irrevelance ...

getmore4less

Google for a few NHS trusts holiday policies there are plenty that show how to do this kind of thing. Many do it by hours worked to take care of part timers.


Holidays fall into two broad catagories.

Total allowance : pro rata for part time

To be taken as and when, usualy where 24/7/365 cover is required.

Allowance + BH(8) :

Tyical of Mon-Fri work places, but this can cause problems for part time workers as those that work Mondays get more days off since only the main allowance should be pro rata if the wording in the contracts is not done carefully.

Poppy9

You will have to do this in hours to show them how it works.

I work part-time (20 hours) and for every bank holiday I'm entitled to 20/37th which is 4 hours.

My working days rarely fall on BH aside from Xmas but when I complete my time sheet I credit myself with 4 hours for BH and have to use leave for the remainder of the day.

Show employee one as:

5 days x 7.30 hours work
leave 25 days leave @ 7.30 hours
8 days bh @ 7.30 hours

employee 2

4 days x 9.37 hours
leave 20 days @ 9.37 hours
BH 6.5 @ 9.37 hours

Hopefully they will both add upto the same.

Savvy_Sue

Yes Poppy, I have done that calculation in hours, they DO add up to the same, but Employee 2 still 'feels' that somehow, because they work 'full-time', they should get 8 days for Bank Holidays. Even though their days are longer than Employee 1's ...

And the contracts do make it clear that both 'normal' leave and bank holidays are pro rata for part-timers, so we are OK there.