I've been seriously 'shilled'

NotQuiteNorbert

Jomo wrote: »

So listing an item free at 99p isn't fee avoidance??

You avoid listing fees, yes, however saying that that is fee avoidance would imply that everyone who lists at 99p is guilty of fee avoidance.

Fee avoidance generally refers to the avoidance of Final Value Fees- that is, the percentage fee that eBay collect at the end of a sale. By shill bidding from a 99p start, a seller may indeed avoid paying listing fees, however, they then leave themselves with higher FVFs, therefore avoiding nothing.

In the case of excessive postage, sellers do avoid FVFs as they are not applied to postage costs, only item price, which is often very low compared to the postage price.

cyril82

My view on this is that shill bidding is part of ebaying in as much as it's often hard to prove and is rife throughout the site

The thing is it is no different to buying in a real auction, alot of the time auction houses will plant people in the room to try and push items over the reserve price so that they make their commission, then there is "taking bids off the wall" which is a shocking practice (even more shocking that it is legal) of taking your bid at say £20 looking behind you and saying £30 then looking back to you and saying £40, no else is actually bidding but if you bid (ie nod, say yes etc) when he comes back at £40 you just bid against yourself and added £20 to the price, ever wondered why when you see property auctions all the serious, experienced bidders stand at the back? Adding £20 is one thing imagine adding £20,000 from being bid off the wall, i've seen it happen. Thats why you will see people waiting untill the auctioneer say "going once" before upping their bid, they have to bring it back to you if they were taking bids of the wall so it's a way of checking that someone actually bid..;)

The point is you are fighting a losing battle, and this is why you should always have a firm maximum bid price and stick to it when buying at auction.

Jomo

NotQuiteNorbert wrote: »

You avoid listing fees, yes, however saying that that is fee avoidance would imply that everyone who lists at 99p is guilty of fee avoidance.

Fee avoidance generally refers to the avoidance of Final Value Fees- that is, the percentage fee that eBay collect at the end of a sale. By shill bidding from a 99p start, a seller may indeed avoid paying listing fees, however, they then leave themselves with higher FVFs, therefore avoiding nothing.

In the case of excessive postage, sellers do avoid FVFs as they are not applied to postage costs, only item price, which is often very low compared to the postage price.

So you admit, it is avoiding the fee then! :o:cool::o:o

NotQuiteNorbert

Jomo wrote: »

So you admit, it is avoiding the fee then! :o:cool::o:o

If listing at 99p is fee avoidance, better shoot everyone. As I went on to explain, the higher FVFs a seller would leave themselves with by shilling and pushing up the item price would cancel out any saving made in this way, therefore the seller avoids nothing.

JimmyTheWig

NotQuiteNorbert wrote: »

If listing at 99p is fee avoidance, better shoot everyone. As I went on to explain, the higher FVFs a seller would leave themselves with by shilling and pushing up the item price would cancel out any saving made in this way, therefore the seller avoids nothing.

Consider the options. A seller doesn't want a particular item to sell for less than £2...
1. Honest Seller. Starting price of £2. Gets one genuine bid. Item sells for £2.
2. Dodgy Seller. Starting price 99p. Gets one genuine bid. Shill bid of £1.80 placed by friend. Item sells for £2.

In the second scenario, less fees have been paid but with the same result.

This is different to the case of the honest seller putting a starting price of 99p. Yes, they pay lower fees but because of that they risk their item going for less than they were happy for it to.