Joint tenancy question

SuzySu

Hoping for some advice here please....

What does it mean to have two names on a tenancy agreement? I mean legally? Does the other person named on the lease have to live there or can someone sign even if they rent somwhere else?

If my income means that I won't pass a Miras test, can someone else sign as a joint tenant even if they live somewhere else?

Does LHA count towards income for a Miras test too?

Sorry for so many questions...just need to figure this out.

theartfullodger

You ask about 2 names on tenancy: I take it you mean a joint-tenancy with 2 tenants named. This means both people are entitled to reside there. (Neither has to. You can pay the Landlord & live somewhere else,...) However if one planned to live elsewhere the LL/Agent would (rightly) be suspicious.



The tenancy is usually written so that both tenants are "Jointly & Severally" responsible for everything. So if there are, say, rent arrears the Landlord can get the money from either person (and if he has any sense goes for the easiest target, usually the one working with the highest wages).

LHA may be a problem: Tell the agent/Landlord first. What they don't like is surprises - do they know you'll be on Housing Benefit?? If not is may come as a shock.

Cheers!

Lodger

SuzySu

Thanks for the quick response Lodger!

There were two names on my lease for the past year, but my partner never actually moved in - we separated due to financial difficulties (among other things) so I have been covering the rent on my own anyway. Now the lease is up for renewal I just want my name on so I can hopefully claim LHA and single person's council tax, neither of which I have been claiming.

I am just concerned that the EAs will want to do another Miras check as only my name will be on the lease and I know I will not pass on my own.

However, I don't want to inform my landlord that I am getting it until I know it is definite. The only way I can find this out is by taking my tenancy agreement (and other documents) and, at the moment, there are two names on the lease. I know the landlord won't have a problem with my getting LHA. She is "over the moon" that I am staying another year and can't do enough to make the house lovely for us.

I don't want to deceive anyone here. I simply want to stay here for another year with my children.

Colincbayley

SuzySu wrote: »

Thanks for the quick response Lodger!

There were two names on my lease for the past year, but my partner never actually moved in - we separated due to financial difficulties (among other things) so I have been covering the rent on my own anyway. Now the lease is up for renewal I just want my name on so I can hopefully claim LHA and single person's council tax, neither of which I have been claiming.

I am just concerned that the EAs will want to do another Miras check as only my name will be on the lease and I know I will not pass on my own.

However, I don't want to inform my landlord that I am getting it until I know it is definite. The only way I can find this out is by taking my tenancy agreement (and other documents) and, at the moment, there are two names on the lease. I know the landlord won't have a problem with my getting LHA. She is "over the moon" that I am staying another year and can't do enough to make the house lovely for us.

I don't want to deceive anyone here. I simply want to stay here for another year with my children.

The names on a tenancy agreement have nothing to do with your ability ( or not ) to claim LHA or Council Tax Benefit.
When you fill in the benefit forms they will ask you who lives at the property, advise them just you, if they then ask why there are two names on the AST, then tell them the truth.

The same applies the other way around if it were just one name on the AST but then a partner moves in.

tbs624

Suzy - have you had a look at what the LHA rate is for your area? How does it stack up against the rent you pay on this property, and would you be able to meet any shortfall?

A couple of things for you to be aware of:

1. Your LL may have a BTL mortgage which does not permit her to let the property to tenants who are in receipt of benefits

2. If that one doesn't apply, then the LA *will* in all probability want you to be properly checked out. They have to cover their own backs in the event of any claim from the LL that they failed to do their job properly, in the event of your defaulting at a later date. If you don't meet their criteria, you may be asked to provide a guarantor, who will also usually need to be credit checked.

If you have a good relationship with the LL it is always worth arranging for her to call and discuss it all with you as soon as you know what the benefit situation is. She employs the LA, so in the final equation the decision will be hers. Many LLs will prefer to keep a tenant whom they know is reliable and looks after the property etc rather than starting anew with someone who is an unknown quanitity and could after all , end up in a similar situation to your own.

Good luck

SuzySu

Hi and thank for your comments tbs624....

The house I am living in was my LL's family home for many years, so not a BTL. She knows I am a single parent and has not asked whether I am in receipt of any benefits or not.

I simply don't have anyone I could ask to be guarantor. It seems ludicrous that I have been paying the full rent on my own for the past year, but that I might default this year when I will/should be getting LHA. She is not increasing the rent at all and is installing new carpets and a new shower because she is so happy I am extending my tenancy.

She does not really want to use the LA. As soon as she met me she decided she would not ask them to manage the property as she would prefer to deal directly with me (which has worked out very well). She pops in occasionally to make sure we are all ok and check on my (lack of) gardening skills

She is only using the the LA for the lease renewal because she is overseas and it is the easiest way of doing it for her.

I won't know what my benefit situation is until I discuss it with the council, which means providing the tenancy agreement (which I can't do for the coming year until it is signed)...sort of catch 22.

theartfullodger

Susysu says

I won't know what my benefit situation is until I discuss it with the council, which means providing the tenancy agreement (which I can't do for the coming year until it is signed)...sort of catch 22.

(Assuming you are in England or Wales) - err... the "old" tenancy agreement carries on unless you/the Landlord cancel it (by either of you giving notice-to-quit). Otherwise it carries on, on the original terms, with you on a month notice & LL on 2 months.

This is called "periodic" and is the law. The Agency probably want their fees for raising a new tenancy. It is not necessary.

You can go to the council with your existing (old) tenancy agreement for the LHA etc... it is still in force.

Cheers!

Lodger

tbs624

SuzySu wrote: »

.... It seems ludicrous that I have been paying the full rent on my own for the past year, but that I might default this year when I will/should be getting LHA.

Fully agree with you - some LAs even try to insist on new checks if *any* T renews "because things *may* have changed". They fail to see that that could happen at any point after checks have been done, and it doesn't necessarily follow that a T may stop paying the rent.

SuzySu wrote: »

She is only using the the LA for the lease renewal because she is overseas and it is the easiest way of doing it for her.

If she is classed as non-resident in the UK then she *must* have somone acting as her agent within the UK - if she doesn't have, then no rent can be lawfully demanded. That said, it can simply be a friend, or an accountant/solicitor etc, so long as they can deal with any notices relating to the tenancy.

The fact that there is no BTL mortgage restriction and that you seem to have a reasonable relationship with the LL mean that things should run relatively smoothly for you.

SuzySu

Thanks Lodger.

That is where my concerns started, because there are two names on the tenancy agreement (hence my original post). I was just concerned that the council would not take it any further as there were two names on the agreement and not one.

If I just explain the situation should it be ok?

clutton_2

why not get a signed statement from the other ex-tenant saying that he has moved on and that you are now solely responsible for the property and you could show this to the council as well as the agreement

Jowo_2

“What does it mean to have two names on a tenancy agreement? I mean legally? Does the other person named on the lease have to live there or can someone sign even if they rent somwhere else?”

A person is supposed to have one single primary residence. As a joint tenancy agreement makes them jointly and severally liable for arrears and damage, it is extremely dumb for someone to expose themselves to this risk when they do have to. To put it simply, there may be 2 people in the tenancy but legally there is just a single tenant – a landlord doesn’t have to pursue the person who is responsible for any damage or rent arrears, any signatory on the agreement will do.

“If my income means that I won't pass a Miras test, can someone else sign as a joint tenant even if they live somewhere else?”

If your income means you can’t past a particular test of affordability, its worth having a think about the risk of going ahead and the financial risk you expose to the person you’ve asked to pretend to live there.

“The house I am living in was my LL's family home for many years, so not a BTL.”

Unless the house is now fully bought, if there is a mortgage on it, it could now be a BTL. This is because if a person moves out of their own property and lets it to tenants, they need to get permission and are sometimes obliged to switch to a commercial mortgage. Therefore, there may be restrictions on who they can let to.

“It seems ludicrous that I have been paying the full rent on my own for the past year, but that I might default this year when I will/should be getting LHA. She is not increasing the rent at all.”

What is the difference between the rent charged and the level of LHA you will receive? How will you cover the shortfall? Have you any savings for the even that the local council takes several months to process your claim?

“She is only using the the LA for the lease renewal because she is overseas and it is the easiest way of doing it for her.”

So how can she manage repairs, inspections and the like if she’s based overseas. Have you thought how you can manage if the boiler breaks down and you can’t get hold of her for a few days, as an example scenario.

“why not get a signed statement from the other ex-tenant saying that he has moved on and that you are now solely responsible for the property and you could show this to the council as well as the agreement”

Not sure that this has much effect in terms of him surrendering the tenancy, though perhaps it could keep the council happy, because this is something that is to be done with the landlord. And if a joint tenant serves notice to end the tenancy, it ends the tenancy for all parties unless the landlord is happy to negotiate a new tenancy with the tenant that wants to remain.