Penalty charge notice through the post..

Archeryfish

Hi all,

I'm after some advice.
I was up on the wirral monday and tuesday for a family funeral this week.
My brother needed to pay some cash into the bank in bebington village on the way to the funeral so I pulled up on a single yellow line, he got out. I waited 4-5mins in the car and he got back in the car and we went off to the funeral.
Anyway I get a PCN through the door today with 3 photos of my car at just after 10am.
The contravention is 'Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (Code 01)' I did not see any signs saying I couldn't park there, my brother has lived there many years (i live many miles away now) and he was not aware of this CCTV activity. Do I have any grounds for not paying the excessive £70 fine ?
It says I can pay £35 if received within 21days. I feel that the 'fine' is completely excessive to the amount of time I was waiting, perhaps £2-3 nominal charge I would consider paying but not £35-70
Any advice gratefully received.

Archeryfish.

pogofish

See the sticky at the top of the fourm about scanning and posting up the entire ticket (minus personal details o/c), so the experts can have a look at its legal compliance.

The signs may be a different matter if the lines lie in or out of a CPZ, so you may need to ask your brother to check that and any potential incompatibility with the regs. Photos would help.

Archeryfish

thanks pogofish for your quick response.
i am in the process of scanning in the document and will upload it, assuming i'm allowed to being a newbie.
My brother is going to have a look at the area tommorow and take some photos for me.
cheers ArcheryFish

pogofish

Great - You may need to make a few more posts before you can link directly but I think you can still post it as text?

Yes that would be a great help.

Archeryfish

check out the 1st page..

//tinypic.com/view.php?pic=20zbf5s&s=5

(have had to remove the http bit to get it through the post as a newbie)

having trouble scanning in 2nd page :- references the specified grounds if I believe that the penalty charge should not be paid to make representations to wirral borough council. one of which is 'the penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances in the case' which surely is applicable...


cheers
Archeryfish

Archeryfish

2nd page with specified grounds for representations..

(again http: removed so I can post this..;) )

//tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2f0do1v&s=5

Coblcris

Signage is the Wirral is very well known as being amongst the worst ever found anywhere anytime.

Archeryfish

My brother warned me on exiting the car that there are traffic wardens that occasionally patrol the street in question. I honestly thought he'd be a couple of minutes (2-3) in the bank not 5 minutes. The stupidity on my behalf on reflection is I know that If i had parked around the corner it was free to park there.. I've done a check on the traffic regulations for wirral and there is one that states for the code1

'Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours'
'observation period' 3 minutes
'fine' £70

Do I have any grounds for offering a reduced fee? surely even the 50% reduced payment within 21days of 35quid is disproportionate to the offence? If i'd got out the car done a bit of shopping and returned 30mins later then fair play i'd accept it on the chin, but this leaves a foul taste in my mouth .
There is also a 'free car park' for the somerfield nearby which I could have parked in.. Like i said if i'd known i wouldn't have parked there..

Archeryfish

Ok my brother has checked out the area for me.
He said that there are yellow signs that are envelope size 3" high x 6" wide - yellow rectangle 7am-7pm with a red circle and line through it on lamposts (approx 20-30yds along).
Also that someone else has been done, by someone with a mobile CCTV unit, not a fixed camera along the same stretch of road recently- the husband of the owner of a card shop on that street as he was waiting to pick his wife up.

Now 1) Do the signs have to be a particular size? I DEFINITELY did not see them .
2) The contravention code 01 states 3minutes observation time.

I have been recorded as 3mins 16seconds. If I left immediately after this (3mins 20secs) does this not still count as 3minutes? i.e. to get a fine 4minutes or more is required?

I'm planning on making representations on the 'procedural impropriety by the enforcement authority' ..

unless anyone else has any better ideas or is the general consensus i don't have a leg to stand on?

Neil_B

Any feelings you have over the level of penalty are irrelevant. A fairly standard amount and far less than some areas of the Country.

There is no Statutory observation time although they have to behave reasonably. Anything they say on their website is irrelevant (mostly). A longer obs time might normally be reasonable to ensure you were not loading/unloading - but since you weren't, again, irrelevant.

signage sounds correct.

PCN - dunno. Not putting myself out to look at it just cos of the failings of this forum.

For more comprehensive input post it up on 'PePiPoo'. They will check it.

I see no procedural imprpriety so far.
-

realaledrinker

Archeryfish wrote: »

Hi all,

I pulled up on a single yellow line...... I get a PCN through the door today with 3 photos of my car at just after 10am..

Says it all, surely?