Paypal holds money

marty4sh

Hi! I have been having problems with Paypal the story begins like this.....I I use ebay and I have a 100% feedback and recently sold my classic raliegh chopper. I was so happy it sold within 15mins of being put on and payment was instant. Now the problems begin Paypal have decided to hold the payment until the buyer leaves possative feedback or I can prove it was delivered, I did not know this before I placed the ad so delivery was charged at a low rate which is not signed for so effectivly if the buyer does not leave me possative feedback he has my bike and he gets his money back.
I have emailed both paypal and ebay asking what legal right Paypal has to withold money that legally is mine and only using Paypal as the transaction and paying both parties for the pleasure. I will copy and paste the email string below. Please tell me I am noy being un reasonable asking for a straight foward answer to a straight foward question. Any help/comments would be greatly appreciated .......................................
Dear Martin crisp,

Thanks for contacting PayPal. This is Bernadette. I appreciate the
opportunity to assist you with your questions.

I understand that you are enquiring about your funds being placed on hold.


EBay and PayPal are working together to make it safer than ever to buy and
sell on eBay. One of the boldest steps we're taking is to identify
transactions that pose the greatest risk of fraud and holding the payments
from sellers for a period of time to help ensure that the transactions go
smoothly.
PayPal will hold payments for transactions where the vast majority of
seller fraud occurs. Here are the most common instances in which a payment
may be held:
* You have been on eBay less than six months and sell an item for more
than 50 GBP
* You have a feedback score of less than 98% and sell an item for more
than 50 GBP
* More than 5% of your transactions result in dissatisfied buyers
* You have an average Detailed Seller Rating (DSR) of 4.5 or less
* You have received less than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings
* You are listing an item in a higher-risk category
If you receive a payment that is held by PayPal, the amounts held will show
as "Pending" in a separate PayPal balance on your account page. You will
still have access to all other funds in your PayPal account.
Your funds will be released when one of the following occurs:
* The buyer leaves you positive feedback
* 21 days pass without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed
on the transaction.
If you receive a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction
subject to the hold, PayPal may hold the payment in your Account until the
matter is resolved, even if the claim, chargeback or reversal is made after
the hold is released.

I appreciate the opportunity to assist you. If you have any other concerns,
feel free to contact us. We are committed to making your experiences at
PayPal pleasant and rewarding.

Sincerely,
Bernadette
PayPal European Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

Copyright © 1999-2009 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l.
& Cie, S.C.A. Soci!t! en Commandite par Actions. Registered Office: 5th
Floor, 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg, RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

Original Message Follows:

---

READ MY COMPLAINT!!!!!!!!! ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS ONCE AGAIN REPEATED THE
SAME
THING TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT IS WHY I HAVE MADE THIS COMPLAINT. IF THIS
IS
YOUR COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE THEN I WORREY ABOUT ANY TRANSACTION WITH YOU. FOR

GODS SAKE READ MY COMPLAINT AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. IN THE MEAN TIME I
WILL BE TAKING LEGAL ADVICE ABOUT LEGAL ACTION AGAINST YOU AS I HAVE ASKED
MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT TO WITH HOLD MONEY PAID TO ME AND YOU
HAVE NOT ANSWERED SO I CAN ONLY ASUME YOU DO NOT AND ARE ACTING ILLIGELLY
AND PROFETING FROM THE INTEREST ON THE MONEY. I WILL ASK ONE MORE TIME FOR
YOU TO READ MY EMAIL COMPLAINT BELOWE AND I WILL BE POSYING THIS AND THE
PREVIOUSE EMAILS EVERY WHERE I CAN ON THE INTERNET AND MAKING AS MANY
PEOPLE
AS I CAN AWARE OF YOUR UNPROFESSIONALISM AND MISSCONDUCT.

---

Original Message

---

From: <[EMAIL="webform&#64;paypal.co.uk"]webform@paypal.co.uk[/EMAIL]>
To: "Evelina Crisp" <[EMAIL="marty_eve&#64;tiscali.co.uk"]marty_eve@tiscali.co.uk[/EMAIL]>
Sent: Saturday, June ##, #### ##:## PM
Subject: Re: FileaComplaintintheEuropeanUnion (Routing Code:
C###-L###-T#####-S###-W##M###) (KMM########I##L#KM) :ppk#


Dear Evelina Crisp,

Thanks for contacting PayPal. My name is Lawrence I appreciate the
opportunity to assist you with your questions.

I understand that this is regarding the payment that is on hold on your
PayPal account. Firstly, allow me to do my best here on my end in providing
you the best possible reasons or criterias why payments are being held.

eBay and PayPal are working together to make it safer than ever to buy and
sell on eBay. One of the boldest steps we're taking is to identify
transactions that pose the greatest risk of fraud and holding the payments
from sellers for a period of time to help ensure that the transactions go
smoothly.
PayPal will hold payments in transactions where the vast majority of seller
fraud occurs. Here are the most common instances in which a payment may be
held:
* You have been on eBay less than six months and sell an item above ##
GBP
* You have a feedback score of less than ##% and sell an item above ##
GBP
* You have received less than ### eBay feedback
* More than #% of your transactions result in dissatisfied buyers
* You have an average Detailed Seller Rating (DSR) of #.# or less
* You have received less than ## Detailed Seller Ratings
* You are listing your item in a higher-risk category

If you receive a payment that is held by PayPal, the amounts held will show
as "Pending" in a separate PayPal balance on your account page. You will
still have access to all other funds in your PayPal account.

Your funds will be released when one of the following occurs:

* The buyer leaves you positive feedback
* ## days pass without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed
on the transaction

If you receive a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction
subject to the hold, PayPal may hold the payment in your Account until the
matter is resolved, even if the claim, chargeback or reversal is made after
the hold is released.

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

Sincerely,
Lawrence
PayPal European Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

Copyright © ####-#### PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l.
& Cie, S.C.A. Soci!t! en Commandite par Actions. Registered Office: #th
Floor, ##-## Boulevard Royal, L-####, Luxembourg, RCS Luxembourg B ### ###

Original Message Follows:

---

Form Message
customer subject: This is a formal complaint
customer message: Describe the nature of your complaint: 'I have
been
emailing for an answer which I get the same response and not
answering my
actual question but repeating what I have asked. Question... What
legal
right does Paypal have to with hold a payment made to me by a
buyer on
ebay. I was not informed of this before or during placing my
advert on ebay
by ebay or paypal. I chose your service to handle the
transaction
and I am
your customer. (without ebay sellers your business is finished) I
advertised the Item with standard delivery which is not signed
for
so I
have no proof of receipt by the buyer and if they choose not
to
leave
possative feedback I dont get paid and have lost the Item. Will
Paypal then
cover what I will have lost? I repeat my self once again so I
am very clear
about my unanswered questions... What legal right does paypal have

to with
hold money paid to my account, money which is legaly mine? also
I have
verified my bank account but today I am asked to do it all
over
again why
is this? I have tried to phone your expensive customer services
but your
phone system is terrible and a very obvious money making scheme
just
sending you round in circles while charging you money eventually
dropping
me into a queue with no answer. You have a cheek calling it
your customer
service department as I have received no service and a lot of
expense.
Martin Crisp'
Please select which type of account best describes you.:
'personal_account' :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

soolin

iT is a bit difficult to separate out the various points in your post so I will answer the obvious ones.

Firstly, without any tracking how can you even hope to defend a paypal chargeback? OK, I am well known for my views on not using recorded for cheap items but for anything over £39 (and I assume your bike fits that category) without paying extra to RM for special or probably more sensibly using a courier with tracking you might as well have given your bike to the first stranger that came along. Insurance for loss or damage en route is for your benefit, not that of your buyer.

Also the hold for 21 days rule is explained on listing your item, on one of my accounts I had this when I sold my sons mechanical toy recently, it just came up before i pressed confirm to list that this item was in a category that was liable to result in a hold until I received positive feedback or after 21 days.
As it happened my payment was not held in the end.

Lastly, the payment will only be held for 21 days or until you receive positive feedback. Therefore asusming there is no chargeback raisied against you, after 21 days just email paypal or phone them and ask for your funds to be released if it doesn't happen automatically.

soolin

Also can I please suggest you remove your identify details, including your email from you post as I think leaving it there will make your paypal problems seem minor.

marty4sh

Friendly bunch on here! but still no one gets the point I am asking questions to which I am getting no answers. I am asking how they can legally with hold money as I am in affect only employing Paypal to handle the transaction not judge me. My annoyance is with the constant one answer fits all mentality and repeating when it is obvious my questions are not being answered, This email string is the third such string and admittedly is a bit unkempt but this is due to my frustration at getting the same answers over 6 times. They treat people like they are fools and don't address the issues.
Anyone defending Paypal has obviously not yet had to deal with them and come up against the brick wall that is their customer service. This is a new rule they have decided to enforce and I don't beleive it is legal for them to do this. Be warned there are many people on other sites who have lost large amounts of money due to this new ruling and even after proving they have sent the goods all it takes is negative feedback or those magic words..."I did not autherise the use of my card" and your money and goods are gone and trust me the protection they promise is not always there.

marty4sh

soolin wrote: »

Also the hold for 21 days rule is explained on listing your item, on one of my accounts I had this when I sold my sons mechanical toy recently, it just came up before i pressed confirm to list that this item was in a category that was liable to result in a hold until I received positive feedback or after 21 days.
As it happened my payment was not held in the end.

Lastly, the payment will only be held for 21 days or until you receive positive feedback. Therefore asusming there is no chargeback raisied against you, after 21 days just email paypal or phone them and ask for your funds to be released if it doesn't happen automatically.

I got no such warning when I placed my advert on ebay so I was unaware of this and in what reality is it acceptable for Paypal to expect anyone to wait for 21 days for payment? If you buy an item from a web site the seller would expect funds in real terms before sending goods and the same for any other type of transaction. I know there are sellers who rip people off on ebay but there are buyers who do the same and at the end of the day it is the sellers who are paying ebay to place their goods and paying paypal for the transaction not the buyers so the seller should be in the first thoughts of both companies.

soolin

Just another point to address, if a buyer does a fraudulent use of a card claim you can defend this on paypal by providing proof of posting to the paypal address supplied and confirmed as 'OK to send' by paypal.

For a straight chargeback for item not received you would need to additionally provide proof of tracking showing item was delivered to the address supplied by paypal and signed for. For items over £150 there is a further requirement to provide an online viewable signature.

So how much did your bike sell for and has it now been delivered safely and can you track it to delivery?

4743hudsonj

they have every right to withold your money im afraid

buy signing up to both ebay and paypal you agree to these precautions being taken if they see them to be fitting

learn from it in future, more ebay problems arise from fraudulent buyers scamming sellers than the other way around as sellers think they are protected when usually they have very little or at least less than buyers

if in the case that paypal refund the buyers money and brick wall you, uyou could always write to the buyer direct and if after 2 weeks nothing or refusal to pay, fill out a smal claims court (should be this unless its a stupidly priced race bike) N1 form and take court action against him

that way paypal cannot interfere

however it will be rather hard to prove that you indeed sent the item so i suppose you would have to call up yours and their local postal sorting office and ask politely if they have any records of your bike being posted

aslo go to where you bought the bike and see if they have the frame number of the bike as this will come in handy

tinynik

Paypal has done exactly the same thing to me.... Except the item I sent was posted by RM special delivery.... and was also time sensitive, so I know the buyer has already used these goods, and that they were delivered.
I have submitted the tracking details of this item into my account on paypal, contacted them, who then told me to contact ebay, who then told me to contact the seller, as if I hadn't thought of doing that myself??!! The buyer is being an ignorant idiot, that doesnt want to know now they have had their goods.
Do I have an issue with Paypal/Ebay over this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Nikki