Notice period, a lot of money and other questions

Fly_Baby

The other question that bothers me is - if we move out of the existing property earlier than the tenancy ends, will we still be liable for council tax and water charges (we are on the fixed tariff)? We will be paying these in the new place starting from 2 July.

Can we do it at all - move out before the tenancy expires? We also booked the tickets to go on holiday and due to leave before 28 July - i.e. again, before the tenancy officially ends. Can we hand in the keys earlier?

spectre

Hi Fly Baby, we are in exactly the same situation , badly worded letters which gave the impression we cold just give the 31days notice and that would be the end of it.

Apparently its all part of the housing act something we as tennants should make ourselves familar with upon embarking on the agreement. yeh right.:mad:

Were waiting on the landlord to decide if he is going to let us out of the agreement early oherwise we have 3 weeks rent to pay on a place we not going to be living in.

You wont be liable for the coucil tax, stitch off all electrics etc.

Good luck , let me know if your successful

pinkshoes

1 month notice before a rent date is the norm when renting.

You'll be liable for ALL bills until the end of your tenancy. As it will be empty, you may not have to pay the council tax, so phone them and let them know where you're moving to. It depends on the region. We had an overlap when moving and only had to pay CT for one property.

For gas, elec and water, take a reading on the day you move out and turn them off. Notify the providers that you will no longer be at the address, and give them a forwarding address to send a final bill to.

mnj1x

>> The contract says: ""the tenancy can be ended at any time giving minimum 1 month notice, the notice expires at the last day of a period".

If I were you, I would argue that the clause "the notice [expires] at the last day of a period" is a non-sensical clause and has no bearing in your situation. Once you have given notice of termination, it stands valid till infinity unless you nullify by issuing a subsequent amendment. Hence, you can argue that it means that if you issue a notice and then not actually move out before the expiry of the last day of a period, then that notice will expire and all parties will assume that the tenancy continues as before since the tenant has not acted on the notice.

Basically that this is a non-sensical clause and is open to different interpretations. As the document 'Guidance on unfair terms in tenancy agreements' [http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf] states that the agreement should use 'plain and intelligible language'. You can argue that this is an examples of the use of jargon that did not meet transparency requirements (see Group 19: Regulation 7).

This is what will be my defence as an amateur tenant as I currently find myself in a similar situation.

Good Luck !

Planner

mnj1x wrote: »

>> The contract says: ""the tenancy can be ended at any time giving minimum 1 month notice, the notice expires at the last day of a period".

If I were you, I would argue that the clause "the notice [expires] at the last day of a period" is a non-sensical clause and has no bearing in your situation. Once you have given notice of termination, it stands valid till infinity unless you nullify by issuing a subsequent amendment. Hence, you can argue that it means that if you issue a notice and then not actually move out before the expiry of the last day of a period, then that notice will expire and all parties will assume that the tenancy continues as before since the tenant has not acted on the notice.

Basically that this is a non-sensical clause and is open to different interpretations. As the document 'Guidance on unfair terms in tenancy agreements' [http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf] states that the agreement should use 'plain and intelligible language'. You can argue that this is an examples of the use of jargon that did not meet transparency requirements (see Group 19: Regulation 7).

This is what will be my defence as an amateur tenant as I currently find myself in a similar situation.

Good Luck !

I would have tio disagree. Whats non-sensical and unfair about it? You have to give one months notice and that one months notice has to expire (i.e. end) on the last day of a tenancy period. Its pretty straight forward to be honest, nothing 'unfair' or not written in 'plain language' about it.

Why do you think a tenants notice is valid for infinity 'unless you nullify by issuing a subsequent amendment?' (Talk about plain English!!) Very odd.

If this was to be your defence as an amateur tenanat, you would find yourself with a nice bill for the LLs costs in addition to the outstanding rent im affraid.

Fly_Baby

mnj1x wrote: »

>> The contract says: ""the tenancy can be ended at any time giving minimum 1 month notice, the notice expires at the last day of a period".

If I were you, I would argue that the clause "the notice [expires] at the last day of a period" is a non-sensical clause and has no bearing in your situation. Once you have given notice of termination, it stands valid till infinity unless you nullify by issuing a subsequent amendment. Hence, you can argue that it means that if you issue a notice and then not actually move out before the expiry of the last day of a period, then that notice will expire and all parties will assume that the tenancy continues as before since the tenant has not acted on the notice.

Basically that this is a non-sensical clause and is open to different interpretations. As the document 'Guidance on unfair terms in tenancy agreements' [http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf] states that the agreement should use 'plain and intelligible language'. You can argue that this is an examples of the use of jargon that did not meet transparency requirements (see Group 19: Regulation 7).

This is what will be my defence as an amateur tenant as I currently find myself in a similar situation.

Good Luck !

Thanks for your advice. I went to the CAB with this matter and the adviser too wasn't sure what this wording meant so had to consult a lawyer. Unfortunately, the lawyer confirmed that the EA is within its rights.

poppysarah

Whilst you're paying the rent thought it's yours to live in. And they can't just go in to show new people round.

mnj1x

Planner wrote: »

I would have tio disagree. Whats non-sensical and unfair about it? You have to give one months notice and that one months notice has to expire (i.e. end) on the last day of a tenancy period. Its pretty straight forward to be honest, nothing 'unfair' or not written in 'plain language' about it.

Why do you think a tenants notice is valid for infinity 'unless you nullify by issuing a subsequent amendment?' (Talk about plain English!!) Very odd.

If this was to be your defence as an amateur tenanat, you would find yourself with a nice bill for the LLs costs in addition to the outstanding rent im affraid.

A simple and no more verbose statement implying the spirit of this condition will be :

"the tenancy can only be ended on the last day of a monthly rental period and that too only by giving a minimum 1 month advance notice"

Had the original wording being not unclear and misleading then the OP would not have started this thread and CAB would not have shared her dilemma.

If it is so clear to you, either you have a vested interest in interpreting it in this manner or by your past experiences you have got so conditioned to this interpretation that you have stopped looking at the actual wording.

I would still advise the OP to try her luck with the following :

[
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

2.4 Regulation 5 (1) provides that a standard term is unfair 'if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer'.

It also requires a supplier not to take advantage of consumers' weaker bargaining position, or lack of experience, in deciding what their rights and obligations shall be. Contracts should be drawn up in a way that respects consumers' legitimate interests.
]

Cheers

payless

Under the extension agreement, there is no obligation to stay for 6 months minimum, I just have to give 1 month notice at any point (so does the landlord) and can end the tenancy at any point during the tenancy period.

Term of ll only giving 1 months notice may be in breach ( others will know more) - think it should be 2 months from LL - whether this effects the whol contract ???

Is deposit ( if any) protected? the dates of original agreement and whether this is classed as a new agreement could make things interesting ( http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages-and-homes/buy-to-let/article.html?in_article_id=418257&in_page_id=56 ) well at least give you some bargaining power if they have not followed things to the letter

Planner

mnj1x wrote: »

A simple and no more verbose statement implying the spirit of this condition will be :

"the tenancy can only be ended on the last day of a monthly rental period and that too only by giving a minimum 1 month advance notice"

Had the original wording being not unclear and misleading then the OP would not have started this thread and CAB would not have shared her dilemma.

If it is so clear to you, either you have a vested interest in interpreting it in this manner or by your past experiences you have got so conditioned to this interpretation that you have stopped looking at the actual wording.

I would still advise the OP to try her luck with the following :

[
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

2.4 Regulation 5 (1) provides that a standard term is unfair 'if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer'.

It also requires a supplier not to take advantage of consumers' weaker bargaining position, or lack of experience, in deciding what their rights and obligations shall be. Contracts should be drawn up in a way that respects consumers' legitimate interests.
]

Cheers

Yes, Im the O/Ps letting agent :rotfl:

Come on people, its hardly rocket science. The oft guidance is there to protect 'the average man' from unfair or unclear contract terms. Are you trying to suggest that the average renter wouldnt be able to fathom out that they have to give a months notice expiring at the end of a rental period?

Whats caused the confusion here is the LAs poor advice when asked what notice was required, pure and simple.

As for your suggested wording, thats even worse than the actual contract term here!

Whats the nation coming to? Anyway, have to go, Jeremy kyle's on!!!