Reference, can an employer say a person is rude?

bristol_pilot

Saying in a written reference that someone is rude (or perceived as rude) is opinion not fact and the reference may be libellous. There are several lawfirms that can be instructed to sue the writer of the reference and/or their employer and will consider taking on the case on a no-win no-fee basis - the onus of proof is then on the reference writer to prove in court that it's NOT libellous. Whoever wrote that reference has been very silly.

What I would do is bring this document to the attention of the HR director of the firm employing the reference writer, pointing out the nature of the reference - with a bit of luck he or she will get the sack for bringing the firm into disrepute.

dmg24

Errata wrote: »

"He is a cheerful worker" for instance, can't be supprted by factual evidence and may be an opinion of the employer which may or may not be the opinion of other employees.

You are just being pedantic now, anyone with half a brain would understand what I meant.

Your statement was wrong, you are just making yourself look silly by picking at accurate information.

Errata

you are just making yourself look silly

In your opinion.

-BA-

Errata wrote: »

In your opinion.

We could ask one of the moderators to create a poll

McKneff

-BA- wrote: »

We could ask one of the moderators to create a poll

No dancing allowed on this thread, thank you.;)

Roobarb73

I would always advise employers to stick to factual matters ie things that can be objectively verified if need be

Whether someone is rude is subjective - you might find someone rude, I may just find them plain speaking/candid - and it would probably be wise to avoid referring to something like that in a reference.

That said, it is down to your friend whether they wish to take any action against the employer for the reference or not.

DCodd

As long as it is based in fact an ex-employer can say what they like in a reference. Only a foolish ex-employer would put any sort of personal opinion in a reference as this can leave them open for a victimisation or descrimination claim.

There is no legal requirement to give a reference (with a few rare exceptions) but refusing to give a reference could equally be seen as discriminatory.

Most employers would stick to the very basic facts because as much as an ex-employee can sue for descrimination etc a potential employer who relies on that reference could sue if it is proved that a reference had been unrealisticaly favourable.

Oldernotwiser

-BA- wrote: »

We could ask one of the moderators to create a poll

Except for the fact that there are no moderators on MSE!

DCFC79

Jomo wrote: »

One of my last employers would not divulge anything personal, only the basics...sick leave history, salary etc. etc.

And that came from HR, actual line managers were not able to provide the statements!

same as my last employer, no1 said anything about going to HR so i kept on putting my manager down as a reference,

SomeBozo

I think there is a lot of misguided advice happening on this thread.

Some employers do indeed only provide dates of employment, sick record etc.

This isn't becuase they are "wise", its usually because they have been given some duff legal advice in the past along the lines of "just say dates or you could get sued". Which is of course a load of tosh.

I'll say again, you can put anything you like in a reference as long as its true and can be backed up by a paper trail.

A persons reference should reflect what is in their personal record, and given thats where diciplinaries/praise should end up, thats a good yardstick rule.

So, in the OPs instance, if the person had had complaints made against them to their manager along the lines of "She is rude" at for example "one to ones" then the manager has this backup should he be challenged.

I would probably have worded it like "Some of her colleagues have complained to me in the past that she can be rude". Thats much safer and a statement of fact, rather than opinion.

Bozo