***House prices up 1.2% in May***

princeofpounds

That is how the capitalist system works, everyone for himself, what was that, the great Maggie said 'there is no such thing as society'

haha yeah, frankly it's just how humans work!

The thing is that my politics is probably not too distant from hers (at least in terms of capitalism, I do believe in society!) so I'd better not laugh too much.

As an aside, interesting to note that Maggie was interested in increasing home ownership by effectively making them cheaper, though through right to buy. I'd criticise that scheme in many ways, but isn't it ironic that it's under labour the property-owning class had its time in the sun?!

Trust me, when you do my job you realise how the world really works. Capitalism as a machine is just incredible. It has probably done more to lift developing nations out of poverty in one year than all the state aid in history. Of course it's probably putting a lot of people back this year, but that's the nature of the beast.

Then you get quite depressed when you realise that 95% of the world has no idea how things work, and 4% of the remainder only an intuitive view (I'm often impressed by small businessmen's intuitive grasp of finance!).

But they don't even teach kids basics like time value of money. And then they expect them to make rational decisions about mortgages worth 5 years of gross earnings!

Oh well.

lostinrates

chucky wrote: »

it was a joke LIR - chill woman
.

I'm pretty mcuh always chilled, resultant from immune reaction to novel 'humour' .

Xinpei

Hi prince, I suppose it is only natural you come on here with your 'I know how the world works' cap on and rationalise across the trends the way you do because it is your job. it is my job to work out how a chemical plant should operate and how my products will work in it but I do not think you not understanding reaction kinetics is anything to gripe on about.

Your comparison of a house to tin of beans is poor to start with. I agree that if house prices were low to start with or not so stupidly high, it could benefit, like you said, the PUBLIC GOOD. However, there are very normal people out there with families to feed, who bought houses when, guess what, prices were high, and now face repossession just because the banks screwed up. (oh i suppose some of them would have known the financial principles you were talkin about?) It can be hardly down to the fact no one taught them anything about managing money when they were 5.

admittedly there are some silly people who wanted it ALL NOW. I guess what I'm saying is I feel for those who were just innocent bystanders trying to make a life as they could and got pulled in through no fault of their own.

Thus saying house prices should fall for public good is just.. not very circumspect.

pickles110564

ad44downey wrote: »

Beware the Bulltrap.

Don't be taken for a mug. House prices are still down massively year on year. The recession has just begun.

Dervish, you starting to panic yet, you need to realise that you cant stop the tide going out.:rotfl:

penguine

Xinpei wrote: »

Thus saying house prices should fall for public good is just.. not very circumspect.

So what's the alternative? If it were even possible for the government to prop up house prices for ever -- would it be morally right to do so? It would mean making future FTBs pay high prices in order to keep those who bought in the past few years from suffering the consequences of their decisions.

dopester

penguine wrote: »

So what's the alternative? If it were even possible for the government to prop up house prices for ever -- would it be morally right to do so? It would mean making future FTBs pay high prices in order to keep those who bought in the past few years from suffering the consequences of their decisions.

The efforts in stopping the correction is causing all those FTBs, apart from the ones like me who've saved a bit for some time, to come to have ever worse employment prospects. Especially FTBs of years to come.

It is like some Atlas figure straining to holding market prices high with one arm, whilst trying to push-down and drown FTBs with the other arm.

JayScottGreenspan

Xinpei wrote: »

Hi prince, I suppose it is only natural you come on here with your 'I know how the world works' cap on and rationalise across the trends the way you do because it is your job. it is my job to work out how a chemical plant should operate and how my products will work in it but I do not think you not understanding reaction kinetics is anything to gripe on about.

This not a board on chemical plants and reaction kinetics. If it were you may well have reason to gripe at PoP over his level of understanding.

Xinpei wrote: »

Your comparison of a house to tin of beans is poor to start with. I agree that if house prices were low to start with or not so stupidly high, it could benefit, like you said, the PUBLIC GOOD. However, there are very normal people out there with families to feed, who bought houses when, guess what, prices were high, and now face repossession just because the banks screwed up. (oh i suppose some of them would have known the financial principles you were talkin about?) It can be hardly down to the fact no one taught them anything about managing money when they were 5.

I think the beans thing was someone else's idea, but you're right, it is a poor analogy in many ways.
What we needed was a government that recognised that a stable housing market is desirable. Housing bubbles turn us all into gamblers (buy - pray they don't crash too soon; don't buy - pray they don't 'get away from you') and forces us all put tens or hundreds of thousands onto the casino table. Most people don't want to gamble - they want a stable market.
Should the governemnt now prop up house prices to bail out those who chose the 'buy' gamble? Not if that is to the overall detriment of the economy and the people of the UK.

We need house prices to return to fair value to restore the market to normal, and we need it do so with minimal collateral damage, IMO. Slow grinding falls with low interest rates will do just fine.

If house prices take off again, or remain too high, then general inflation must surely follow. If that happens things will get very, very bad IMO. IF we need to increase IRs in the near future repos could go ballistic.

Xinpei

penguine wrote: »

So what's the alternative?

I didn't claim to know. Do you?

penguine wrote: »

...those who bought in the past few years from suffering the consequences of their decisions.

This is rather harsh. To effectively imply everyone who bought should pay for it. It may not have been very wise - but no one had a crystal ball.

StevieJ

Xinpei wrote: »

I didn't claim to know. Do you?



This is rather harsh. To effectively imply everyone who bought should pay for it. It may not have been very wise - but no one had a crystal ball.

They are greedy people who see a cheap house on the horizon

System

Indeed, take all this "good for future society" stuff with a pinch of salt, it's more like "I want a cheap house, at the expense of existing society".