10 yrs on will u be envious of all those 'muppets' that got into B2L now?

tartanterra

What's wrong with BLT?

After paying off my mortgage, I saved my surplus cash and bought another property with a whacking great deposit. I have used the excess rent money on the property to reduce the mortgage further and now have a small mortgage on it, which I hope to clear soon.
My tenant lives in a well maintained property at a reasonable rent, in an area where they would never have been able to buy, and where rental properties are rare. Everyone's happy. Simples!
Drop in house prices? Couldn't care less.

In fact, all the BTL'ers I know, (bar one person who bought SIX properties in the States!), were more than prepared for any downturn in price as they started with large deposits and were always in it for the long term. They are more than happy to sit on their property, because the rental incomes are healthy, and they have no need to sell.

I do, however, have little sympathy for those who borrowed a deposit, to allow them to borrow more money on ridiculous multiples of income, to buy obviously overpriced property. Irresponsible to the extreme and shame on the banks for lending them the money in the first place.

BTL existed long before irresponsible lending and borrowing, and will be around for a long time yet.
It seems to me, that the actions of a few have tarred the many.
Some of the vitriol against BTL'ers in this thread is beyond the pale, as most of us are not "quick buck" merchants.

A good property, in a good area, at a reasonable price will always be a good long term investment to me, provided you don't overextend your borrowings and are in it for the long term, which makes price fluctuations irrelevent.

:rolleyes:Also, as so many of the posters appear to be "experts" on the subsequent movement of house prices, I fail to see what they are complaining about.
With their apparent, crystal (ball?) clear vision of future house prices, they should have had no problems in the past, predicting the bottom of the market, buying property, then selling at the top.:D

mewbie_2

chucky wrote: »

i have nothing to look at the next page because you're little rant (that you seem to do every day now) is about BTL not affordability. i don't have an argument there.

but if you want to move the goal posts or even cloud the issue because you're initial point was compete tosh like most of the nonsense that comes from the usual suspects.
please feel welcome..

Hmmm, the cracks are starting to show Chucky.

IMO...
BTL was a contributing factor to the HPI Bubble. The BTL ex-winners (ie. losers) are the ones most in peril from a crashing market because they tend to have more than one property that is losing money. Property is likely to continue to fall for a long time.

I don't actually post this stuff for the thanks ratio, because I get more for the dumb !!! stuff like 'Dunroamin' etc. I do it because there is a constant stream of half truths and misleading posts coming from people like yourself. In order the redress the balance the bleedin' obvious needs to be restated.

BTL, Bubble, Crash, Bankruptcy, End Game.

tbh - if I were a BTLer I wouldn't be bothering to try to support it. Just hiding away somewhere and trying to work a way out of the mess. "Oh yes, if I sit on this pile of kak for 20 years I'll be back in profit."

mewbie_2

tartanterra wrote: »

Drop in house prices? Couldn't care less.

Hmmm. That sure is some investment strategy you have there.

chucky

mewbie wrote: »

Mewbie is talking rubbish

cracks!?!? it's more like cak from you...

take a look at the graph look at private rentals and owner occupiers then compare what boomed. you'll find it wasn't private rentals and thus BTL was not the cause of HPI. it sure was contributory factor but a small one compared to residential buyers.

if you can't understand that you should do a bit more research instead of getting off on your tiny little obsession about BTL and your rants that have zero substance and facts.

as for your comment "I don't actually post this stuff for the thanks ratio, because I get more for the dumb !!! stuff like 'Dunroamin' etc". It shows that the Thanks count does bother you because you've noticed. good luck with that.

mewbie_2

chucky wrote: »

repetitive and slightly angry tosh

The thing is Chucky that your graph doesn't mean much to me, and matters less. I am happy with my interpretation of the last few years of stories, media reporting, etc. I am happy that the BTL Bubble crashing doesn't affect me in any way, because I was not clever enough to buy in at the very beginning, or stupid enough to buy in after that point.

As far as I can see it's win / win for me all the way round. Agreed I am not getting a little bit of rental income while I lose tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds, but I can live with that. What I don't have to do is prove to myself that I am on a winner in order to cheer myself up. I can just watch it all unfold in a fairly detached fashion.

tartanterra

mewbie wrote: »

Hmmm. That sure is some investment strategy you have there.

I will make it simple so that even you can understand this................:rolleyes:

My mortgage (Just over 18K), reduces on a monthly, sometimes weekly basis.
The rent I recieve, £725 a month, isn't reducing and is likely to increase over the long term due to inflationary pressures.
I have a good income stream, allowing me to lead a better a lifestyle (and co-incidentally, pay more tax to help bail out the irresponsible banks) and have no plans to ever sell the BTL.
Therefore, if it's not being sold, house price fluctuations are not important.
What matters to me is the income it provides, not it's nominal value at any time during the house price cycle.

As stated before..........simples.;)

Pobby

So in truth chucky I am understanding that to make any money you really need to have a decent yield. I have seen stuff going to auction that was providing yields not much above 5%. Do you know the publication, Property Auction News, it`s by subscription and deals in the main with rental properties. Some of the deals are total madness with yields of 7% or less! Not much room for error and very little profit if it works out very well.

Although I am a well known bear, yes I can understand that if you have enough of a yield, renting out is possibly a way to make a bit of money and at some point, imho , many years from now there will be capital growth. I just think that Johnny come lately btl folk are walking a very fine line.

2 weeks ago I was back in the south east, in the town of my birth. I saw, I think, 6 terraced houses next to each other all to let with the same letting agent. Not a very nice area, but had they all been bought at the top of the market, my guess is you would be looking at £150k each, £900k in total. That will be costing a pretty penny in mortgage repayments for the owners to cover the voids.

In a few months time, at the rate prices have been dropping, I will be in the position to pick up 2 half decent flats to rent out with no mortgage. With the rate of return on my savings many would say go ahead but somehow I still don`t fancy it one bit.

chucky

mewbie wrote: »

The thing is Chucky that your graph doesn't mean much to me, and matters less. I am happy with my interpretation of the last few years of stories, media reporting, etc. I am happy that the BTL Bubble crashing doesn't affect me in any way, because I was not clever enough to buy in at the very beginning, or stupid enough to buy in after that point.

As far as I can see it's win / win for me all the way round. Agreed I am not getting a little bit of rental income while I lose tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds, but I can live with that. What I don't have to do is prove to myself that I am on a winner in order to cheer myself up. I can just watch it all unfold in a fairly detached fashion.

and that's why you're tiny little obsession continues.

i've bought property at 25% off surveyors value - i receive income for that investment that pays any mortgage interest and costs plus I have a profit from that.
i don't need to sell and when i do it won't be at the bottom of the market trust me.
tell me where that loses money.

i'll even give you a bit more info i'm leveraged to about 60% across properties and live mortgage free because of this - how many people can do that?

i'm happy, no need to cheer myself up it's you that's trying to convince everyone that i do. you really are mugging yourself off Mewbie

mewbie_2

tartanterra wrote: »

I will make it simple so that even you can understand this................:rolleyes:

Thanks. It's not a question of understanding, it's believing. Put simply, so you can equally understand - I don't believe you.

mewbie_2

chucky wrote: »

BTL saves lives

BTL took away the bottom rung for a lot of people. Fuelled the bubble. Idiots buying multiple properties when in reality they could barely afford the one they had as a family house. That woman the other with 7.5 million empire. The Wilson's. How on earth, with any intelligence, can you dismiss BTL as being a big part of HPI? From an out of date BBC graph?

er, did you try buying an FTB property on average income over the last ten years? Didn't you notice all the cheaper stuff being snatched up by 'cash' (ie. mewed equity) buyers? Why do you think every single property reached a minimum level way beyond most people? Speculation. And who were the speculators? Oh duh, let me think.

Anyway, mate. It's well and truly over now. People in their family homes will just have to get on with it, like I will. But those who 'own' several properties are very likely to have an extremely miserable time. While in a few years perhaps those missing FTB's will make a comeback, and we return to a more normal property market.