Help with holiday entitlement pro rata please!!

Any

kateab wrote: »

With part time, it's always best to work in hours, not days. And as the minimum is now 28 days which usually includes bank holidays, you have to include that in the calculation, even if the employee does not work on days that are normally holidays. I got a proportion of the bank holidays related to the proportion of hours that I worked. It meant that I had to book any bank holidays that fell on my work days (tho my boss at one stage thought I had to do it for any bank holiday - and I didn't work Mondays which are at least half of the days!)

kateab

I don't think that is right.
That would mean, that if normal full time employee starts in the last month of the year (December) he would not have enough holidays accrued for taking the bank holidays around Christmas...
Also all the contracts of employment I have ever seen were written:
"Employee shall receive 22 (or 25 or whatever) of holidays per (company) calendar year in addittion to bank holidays....
Should the employee leave, he will be entitled to either take or be paid for any holidays accrued to date, which are accruing at rate 1.83 (2.06) days per every finished worked calendar month... "

This is for full time job, I cannot see how for part time can be calculated differently. Do you only get part day of any bank holidays?

I believe that in retail there must be something different as the employees work bank holidays and weekends etc... But then something must be stated in the contract of employment...

I think that the best way to do this now is to wait for the OP to tell us what is written in the contract of employment in regards to holidays.

ab7167

kateab is correct - you have to give part timers pro rata bank holiday allowance, even if they days they work do not fall on a bank holiday.

For example, my contractural holiday is 24 days plus bank holidays - so if I worked full time, I would be paid to stay at home for 32 of my normal working days per year. As it is illegal to discriminate against part time workers, you must offer your part time workers the same allowance.

I work 3 days per week, instead of 5 - so I receive 19.2 days holiday per year (32*3/5). As this allowance already includes bank holidays, if my normal working day falls on a bank holiday, it comes out of this 19.2 days. As I work Tue, Wed, Thu this would only ever happen around Christmas - and not even then this year, as the BH's are Fri 25th and Mon 28th. If I worked Mondays, everytime a BH fell on a Monday it would have to come out of my 19.2 day allowance.

On a side note, the 0.2 of a day can be treated in a number of ways. Either you can be required to take it exactly (which I did this year, leaving 1.5 hours early one day). Or the company may be generous and round it up to the nearest half day or full day. What they are not allowed to do is round it down. Mathematically speaking if you round 19.2 days to the nearest day, it is 19 days - but you are not allowed to reduce holiday allowances, only increase them.

Confusion can arise when there are ONLY part time workers in a business - difficult to determine what 'full time' actually means to compare the part time hours against...

Hope this helps

A

Any

So you have to give only part timers pro rata bank holiday allowance..

So the OP on the very beginning mentioned 22 days... I take it then that that is the company holidays + we need to add bank holidays...

Now we need to find out what their normal working week hours are...(on full time basis)

Crunchiemunch

Hi again!

Thanks for all you responses. I requested my holiday entitlement in hours and they came up with 48.41hrs which, to me is better than 6.5 days. This was worked out by the following.....
You currently work 11 hours per week. A full time employee works 37.5 hours per week. Therefore, your working week is effectively 29.34% of the full time equivalent.


In terms of hours, a full time person is entitled to 165 hours holiday, which is 7.5 hours per day x 22 days.


Therefore, if we say your holiday entitlement is 29.34% of the full time equivalent, you are entitled to 48.41 hours holiday but I would suggest we round this up to 48.5 hours.

I'm a little confused over the bank holiday chat though.
It's a car dealership I work for and they're open pretty much every day barr Xmas, Boxing day and Easter Sunday. I do cover bank holidays when I can and get paid my normal weekend hourly rate. Should they be including Bank Holidays into my entitlement?? I'd love that to be the case, but surely not!!!

Any

No, if you get paid for bank holidays extra adn you are not required to work them then I would be happy with this calculation. Personally. I think the bank holidays are calculated in the entitlement mainly for retail shops, where the employees have to be in no matter what day of the year it is. But I cannot find anything to back this up:-(( So I am not entirely sure now.

You are right that 48.5 hours is better then 6.5 days. What they (and me) didn't realise at first was that your normal working day doesn't cover the same amount of hours as our day.

Any

If we do have to take bank holiday into calculation it still comes up to 48.5 hours.

Because your company's holiday entitlement is 30 days (22+8bank holidays) and you work 29.4% of normal person's hours.

30x29.4% = 8.82 days
but your day is only 5.5 hours
=48.5 hours

Any

This is what I found on Business link:

Based on the information provided, the worker is due 59.5 hours' annual leave for the year starting 1 January 2009, though you may choose to offer more than this.
Some calculations may result in part days. You cannot round these down but you can round them up if you wish. For other options on what to do with part days, see our guide: know how much holiday to give your staff.
Please note that bank and public holidays can be included in the minimum statutory holiday entitlement but you can choose to offer bank and public holidays in addition.
The minimum statutory holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks annually from 1 April 2009 (28 days for a worker working a five-day week). However, the entitlement is capped at 28 days. If a worker works more than five days a week, they are not entitled to more than 28 days' leave unless you have allowed this in their contract of employment.
For atypical working patterns requiring calculations based on hours worked and other information on holiday entitlements, see our guide: know how much holiday to give your staff.
My Business is where you manage saved information and email alerts, and edit your user profile. When you register with My Business, an added advantage is that your User ID and password will be valid across a range of online government services.

That is based on the basic entitlement (20 days + bank holidays) so your would be a bit higher.

However, that doesn't explain how are the bank holidays to be taken. Because you are at home on the bank holidays - so does it come out of this or not??

Anyone can find that one out?

DCodd

I would say that hours do not come into it and as the o/p does not work on any Bank holidays, this does not come into it either.

You are entitled to 28 days holiday, you work 2 days so the calculation should be 28/5 x 2 = 11.2 days probably rounded down to 11 as .2 is one hour.

The extra 8 days do not have to be taken during the Bank Holidays although your employer can insist you do, but as you do not work Bank Holidays that would mean 3 days pay for working a 2 day week. They may want you to do this but seems very unlikely!

DCodd

bumpybecky wrote: »

well I think it's wrong...

statutory holiday entitlement increased from 1st April 2009 and you're now entitled to 5.6 weeks per year paid holiday (your contract may give more than this)

as you work 11 hours per week, I think you're entitled to 11 x 5.6 hours paid holiday per year, that's 61.6 hours which is 12 (and a bit) 5 hours days or 10 (and a bit) 6 hour days or a mix of the two

anyway both of those amounts are more than the 6.5 days quoted

I'm not sure where the 22 days comes from, suspect it's something to do with bank holidays?

I'm not an expert by any means, but have been looking at this for my dd's preschool staff (I do payroll) and they work part time term time only. Holiday calcualtions are complicated!

I've used the page below as a guide...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10034642

I'm about to start a thread regarding Term time only staff pay and holiday. You may want to contribute?

ab7167

I think another point to make is that STATUTORY minimum paid holiday is now 28 days per year. This may or may not include bank holidays at the discretion of the employer, but they CANNOT give you less than 28 days holiday or they are breaking the law.

As you appear to work bank holidays as overtime, I think we can ignore them as overtime hours worked do not have to be taken into account when calculating holiday pay.

For example, I occasionally work 4 hours on a Friday morning when we are under the cosh on deadlines, I get paid my normal hourly rate for this but am not entitled to include this when working out my "percentage of full time rate" as my contractural hours are 22.5 hours.

I take your posts to mean that your contracted hours per week are 11 hours. A full timer contractural hours are 37.5 hours. I still maintain you are entitled to 61.6 hours holiday as your employer appears to be breaking the law by offering less than statutory minimum holidays. In addition, if your full time employees are paid 22 days PLUS bank holidays (30 days), you would be entitled to the same terms and conditions and should be entitled to 66 hours holiday calculated as follows.

(11/37.5)*(30*37.5) = 66 hours

ACAS may be able to help more, but it is illegal to offer your part time employees less holiday than your full time employees calculated on a pro rata basis. They get 30 days at 7.5 hours per day - you should get an exact pro rata proporation of this (the 66 hours calculated above). If they only get 22 days in total, then you are ALL entitled to more holiday as your employers is breaking the law by offering less than statuory minimum.

DCodd, you are not allowed to round down - you have to either take the .2 of a day exactly, as I do (1.5 hours based on a 7.5 hour day), or your employer can choose to round up, as has happened for crunchimunchie up from 48.41 to 48.5 hours.