Loading bay rules and fines? Advice please

Neil_B

roddydogs wrote: »

Yes, they are Vague......how many people know that a full trolly of shopping is not "Loading"........your saying what you think the rules should be...not what they are.

Nope and yes it can be. (I think maybe you missed a 'qualification' from that statement?).

Penny_Pound

Sorry, I've not been able to get to the computer for a while to check on your responses.
Just to update on my situation, I've written to the council with my appeal and I'm waiting to hear from them. In the meantime, can anyone clarify the position regarding signage? To recap, the PCN states that I was parked in the loading bay during restricted hours. One of my points was that the sign just says 'Loading Bay' with no hours mentioned, so it doesn't seem reasonable to expect me to know when I can or can't park there. (And as I said, I actually was loading. The charity shop manager wrote me a strongly worded letter of support, confirming that I was unloading, which I included in my letter to the council).
Thanks in advance.

Neil_B

Penny_Pound wrote: »

To recap, the PCN states that I was parked in the loading bay during restricted hours. One of my points was that the sign just says 'Loading Bay' with no hours mentioned,

Good point and good reminder. Does it have a contravention code or can you give the exact wording. From what you say it would definitely need signage but in the absence of pics it is hard to advise.

the only exception I can think of is if there was also a single yellow through the loading bay with hours restricted by, for example, CPZ entry point signs elsewhere.

Neil_B

Actually, even then, the CPZ signs would need blanket loading restrictions for an entire zone and that is very unlikely.

TheBogsDollocks

The "restricted hours" are 24 hours. When a sign does not give specific hours then they are perceived to be 24/7.

The 3 minute observation is laughable. This is just a minimum time a CEO must observe for before serving a PCN. This time is just a council policy and has no legal basis. Some councils give 5 mins so it is not set in stone it is just that if a CEO spent longer observing such as for 10 mins then that would seriously affect how many PCN's a CEO could issue during a shift meaning less income for our greedy incompetent councils.

Most Traffic Orders will advise that loading can be for "so long as necessary" but on occasion may limit time to 20 minutes or thereabouts.

The observation times on the PCN do not always tell the truth as the CEO may have observed for longer and made a record of it in their log book. However, so long as the observation period was no more than 8 mins and you have that letter of support I do not see you losing this at adjudication. Most loading cases are won by the appellant unless they drop themselves in it by saying they stopped to make a phone call, toilet or cup of tea. There is no where in law that says loading must be continuous although there is DfT guidance but basically common sense dictates that all activity should be related to the process of loading.

The adjudicator may just ask you explain why the CEO was unable to observe you during the observation period. If you have a good reason related to loading you should be safe.

Penny_Pound

Neil_B wrote: »

Does it have a contravention code or can you give the exact wording. From what you say it would definitely need signage but in the absence of pics it is hard to advise.

Hello again, Neil. Sorry I'm so slow at responding. I have a memory impairment, and keep forgetting that I have to check the site.
In answer to your question, the PCN specifically says:

25 - Parked in a Loading Bay during restricted hours without loading.

I'll look tomorrow to see whether there's a yellow line in the bay.

Thanks for your interest.
Penny Pound

Neil_B

Ok 25 makes sense then. It means they are alleging you were not loading - when obviously they must have a video showing you were. (If this has to progress then you will have to insist the video shows the whole story).

let's see what they have to say for themselves. Despite your difficulties (stick a note on the fridge!) keep us updated. I'll try to look but busy at mo.
-

scanditrickynick

I am dealing with an almost identical situation myself. CCTV issued PCN for contravention 25 (parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading) - the camera operator observed the transit-style van for 3 mins before issuing the PCN.

In fact our driver was hand delivering a cheque to a local business. He was absent from the van for approx 5 mins as the correct person to receive the cheque was located.

Does anybody have any advice for me?

sarahg1969

scanditrickynick wrote: »

I am dealing with an almost identical situation myself. CCTV issued PCN for contravention 25 (parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading) - the camera operator observed the transit-style van for 3 mins before issuing the PCN.

In fact our driver was hand delivering a cheque to a local business. He was absent from the van for approx 5 mins as the correct person to receive the cheque was located.

Does anybody have any advice for me?

Yes. Start your own thread, and follow the instructions on the sticky. Someone will then be along to give you some advice.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1363571

Penny_Pound

I checked, and no, there is no yellow line at all in the Loading Bay.

I've received acknowledgement of my letters disputing the two PCN's. I'll keep you informed as I hear more.

(To Scanditrickynick: if you can get a letter of support from the business the driver was delivering the cheque to, I imagine that might help your case, as it would be supporting evidence).