MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Ian hire a waitress who may want kids?

BigMikeyG

It is a difficult situation, but I think he has to do with what is best for his business and look after number one.

Pee

I sat in on interviews for a new secretary with the office manager, who was a woman well past child bearing age who seemed to think being married to the boss and no other experience were adequate qualifications for her job. We were struggling and there were only two candidates that could have fit the role - one was a young girl, not married, who had a few years experience and seemed very capable. The other was an older woman, with experience in the past and a very enthusiastic nature. They were both completely different, but both equally able to do the job. The office manager said that we would choose the older woman as she would not be going off to have children. I pointed out that her mother could get sick and we couldn't base our decision on that. The office manager gave the job to the older woman and lo and behold, before she could start work it turned out her daughter was pregnant and she decided she needed to support her with childcare so couldn't go back to work.

If she is contientious and hardworking, she will be the same once she has children and in the long run might be the making of his cafe.

dlet

It's Ian's projection of her wishes - he doesn't know what her plans are and he could be entirely mistaken. This restaurant owner has to comply with the law - if he discriminates against a woman on the basis that she might have children, he's breaking it! This has been the position for many years, and a good thing too.

In the last century women were often paid less on the basis that they had a husband who was the principle breadwinner - and that they didn't have to rely on their wages -despite a huge amount of evidence to the contrary, ; women civil servants were required to give up their work once they got married - all sorts of bizarre assumptions were made and used as a justification for treating women very badly.

If Ian's small business is under a lot of pressure, any appointment that doesn't work out is a huge risk - so he might benefit by hedging his bets and hiring part time staff.

fleagle21

PhiltheBear wrote: »

It's simply down to risk. The potential employee is young, newly-married and female. The chances are reasonably high that she's going to want children. Probably much higher than an older woman. Or someone unmarried....... simply because it's fairly predictable.

I don't agree with this at all - I married at 19, am now 26 and still have no desire whatsoever to have children - in fact, I have not one maternal bone in my body! If I had been refused a job on the assumption that I would soon quit to have a child, I'd have missed out purely because I'd have been stereotyped as female = baby crazy!!
And older women are just as much of a risk I'd say - women now are far more career-minded, and therefore can leave it later to have a child. Also, someone unmarried - that really isnt a factor, some of my single friends who are out on a standard weekend live quite a promiscuous lifestyle - and accidents happen, especially under the influence of alcohol....! :beer:

So, anyway, in answer to the question, yes I see peoples points in the fact that it is a small business owner who needs to limit his risks, however because its pure assumption, the girl should not miss out on the job just because she MIGHT want children!
Also, on an application for a job I recently applied for it didnt ask my sex, age, or marital status, and I think its correct that it's done in that way - none of these factors affect my ability to do the job.

fleagle21

David_Cameron wrote: »

Personally I don't like being served by homosexuals, so I would avoid the cafe cited above.

Perfectly entitled to your opinion, but might I ask why?! You may not even know they are homosexual, or may even be wrong in assuming that they are!!

queenmedusa

I'm a woman of childbearing age and would be angry as all hell if I didn't get a job on that basis :mad: I don't want children, never have done, but it's highly unlikely that any prospective employer (no matter how forward thinking) would take this into consideration if they took being of 'the right age' into account.

I think that any woman who wants to work should be allowed to do so. I know too many who are more than happy lounging around living on benefits so those of us who're happy paying into the system should be welcomed. After all we're paying in the taxes and NI so that other women can get child allowance!

johncolescarr

Normally I would say of course they should employ Diane, not doing so would be sexual discrimination and wholly unfair

However, what is the point of hiring someone if they will cripple the business? It would benefit no-one, not least the people on maternity, surely they would loose out on any benefits over and above the statutory maternity pay.

It is a shame that he cannot speak on a personal level to Diane and explain the situation. It may be that she does not want, or cannot, have children. However, to do so would be grounds for sexual discrimination so it will just have to be a risk that he has to take

jools0001

I'm really shocked at how many people think this kind of discrimination is OK. It's not about being "politically correct" it's about being fair. Diane might not want to have kids. She might not want to have kids any time soon. She might not be able to have kids. Are we really saying it's OK not to hire a woman of child-bearing age *just* because she's a woman of child-bearing age?

Apart from the fact it's illegal, it's just morally wrong.

As for the argument about the business going under... going into business is full of risks. When you start a business you accept those risks. When you employ people you should accept the responsibility of building a business strong enough to withstand some of those risks. If your business isn't strong enough to cope with run-of-the-mill occurrences that every other business has to cope with, you have bigger problems than whether one of your staff gets pregnant.

ian_l_2

Someone remarked it costs the company nothing for maternity pay, well it does,we had to train someone to cover and this took time from a very competent member of staff. as a small business manager, sadly the whole picture has to be looked at. It would be nice if a woman who was planning a family was open and straight from the start, but one these days is not allowed to ask straight questions due to the PC brigade, so of course the cafe owner is going to have doubts.
Really he wants the best person for the job, never easy but its true another candidate may start and then be ill or have an accident!

Its also morally wrong for a woman to start a job knowing she is going to have children and using that job to ensure maternity pay, i know that goes on and overheard a conversation to that effect, people now seem incapable of taking responsibility for there own actions, just look at health and safety!!!!!!

David_Cameron

fleagle21 wrote: »

Perfectly entitled to your opinion, but might I ask why?! You may not even know they are homosexual, or may even be wrong in assuming that they are!!

I have edited my original post to clarify the fact that it is HYPOTHETICAL and that certain concepts detailed within the post are purely ILLUSTRATIVE. Please take a fresh look at it. I hope it still illustrates the points I was trying to make and that it is less prone to misinterpretation.

Thank you for allowing me to be entitled to my opinion and you are absolutely correct in what you say.

I hope that people aren't offended by what I said, there was no intention to offend, merely to illustrate the point that Ian needs to do what Ian WANTS to do in the best interests of himself, his employees and his customers. That way his business will continue.