Civil Service compinsation scheme change?

Nesty

I have been working for the Civil Service for about 20 years. In 2006 it was announced that our office was closing. The lease expires in Feb 2010 & they couldn't justify renewing the lease.

My Government Agency said I can take Redundancy or have a expenses paid relocation to any other office of choice. Personally I don't want to relocate & opted for the redundancy package.

I get a good redundancy package under the Civil Service Compensation Scheme (CSCS). Depending on years served, age, etc, we could receive a compensation payment of up to 3 x salary if made redundant.

I am at what called Stage 3 Redundancy (final statuary 6 months) & got it in writing from my Agency what I am getting. However my agency fail under what the Government dictate.

However recent announcements by Gordon Brown that he is set to alter the terms of the CSCS in this parliament have me worried & basically my whole office very worried. If Government change the scheme the compensation package changes, could my employer subsequently say I am no longer entitled to the terms I've agreed?

My Employers say staff should be ok as we are at stage 3 and only got 6 months to go. However they can't guarantee anything & say if you want to guarantee your package; then best to leave now to ensure you do get the existing deal before any changes are made by the Government.

A lot of staff have left this week & very scared of losing a nice agreed package. I'm too am considering leaving, but don't really want too unless I have too as I will lose 6 months wages if I can't find a job?

Can the Government bring in a change straight away on the CSCS? Also as I have so called binding agreement how binding is it.
Anyone else know the legality on this subject?
Thanks

dampsquib

You'd hope that your Agency couldn't backtrack on existing deals, even if the government gets away with drastic cuts in the CSCS terms, but as the Government makes the law, I suppose anything is possible. I don't envy the dilema you are in. One for the lawyers, I guess.
Here's a thought though ....
If you are being made "compulsorily redundant", under the Civil Service Management Code (you can Google it), I believe you are entitled to 6 months notice. This may be what you are working now? Instead of working your notice, would your Agency be willing to let you go now and pay you 6 mths Pay In Lieu Of Notice (PILON). Leaving early on this basis, you don't seem to lose any pay (unless your Agency was planning to give you a PILON anyway next February) - but you avoid 6 mths work. If you received a PILON instead of working your notice, your pension may be affected as you would lose 6 mths pensionable service, but additional compensation may be payable under CSCS on the PILON re the loss (It is in the Classic version). If you were to get a PILON, it might affect when you can sign-on too?

Andy_L

Nesty wrote: »

My Employers say staff should be ok as we are at stage 3 and only got 6 months to go. However they can't guarantee anything & say if you want to guarantee your package; then best to leave now to ensure you do get the existing deal before any changes are made by the Government.

A lot of staff have left this week & very scared of losing a nice agreed package. I'm too am considering leaving, but don't really want too unless I have too as I will lose 6 months wages if I can't find a job?

It's a change to T&Cs of service so would have to be negotiated which would take longer than 6 months.
The Government could change the law to exempt them from the requirement to negotiate but that would also take longer than 6 months.

dampsquib

Can't find much info on the web, but personneltoday reported on 06/04:
"Unions told Personnel Today they have been locked in negotiations for six months with government, fighting for "fair treatment" for staff.
But Dave Penman, head of operations at the FDA, which represents senior staff, admitted: "The announcement came as a surprise. We're still in the middle of those discussions."
"The announcement" refers to Gordon Brown news that drastic cuts were coming!
Full story at
personneltoday.com/articles/2009/04/06/50161/civil-service-job-cuts-delayed-pending-reduction-in-redundancy-package.html

Nesty

What's a PILON then?

I got my stage 3 redundancy letter today. It's states Voluntary Redundancy on Compulsory terms. It does refer to the CSCS for payment. Basically I can go now straight away, but unless I got another job then I would be 6 months out of pocket with wages.
We had another meeting today & again no more the wiser. The word from HR is still the same; the earlier you go the more you can guarantee your terms under the present CSCS system.

However not a bad deal. I would prefer to work to Feb, but I am getting no information from my Employer where the negotiations between the Cabinet office or Civil Service union are at. I think most staff are worried that the Cabinet office could just bring it in straight away & then group everyone under the new terms

merlin22

I too have been in this situation since 2006 but our office is due to close in September 2010. Because of all the stress and uncertainty caused by not knowing whether the terms of the existing CSCS would be honoured by the government I - along with many others - have probably "jumped ship" sooner than we needed to. Nothing has been said to me about PILON... I would be intertested to know if this was applicable in my circumstances. We have asked about how binding on our employer / the government is the binding agreement contained in the so-called Stage 3 letter. It seems to be binding on the employee but nobody from the employers side has said it will bind the government to pay us what we think we will be getting. The pension / redundancy scheme is often cited as a valuable part of the benefits package for civil servants and frequently used as an excuse for below inflation pay awards. If this benefit is to be removed then civil servants have a right to expect better pay and benefits in other respects.

dampsquib

Nesty wrote: »

What's a PILON then?

As I mentioned in my first post, a PILON is a Payment In Lieu Of Notice.
As you now mention you are "volunteering" for redundancy however, the 6 month notice period (or PILON) doesn't apply. Volunteers under the Civil Service Management Code are not entitled a specific notice period. So it sounds unlikely that your employer would be willing to pay you a PILON and let you go now.

dampsquib

merlin22 wrote: »

I too have been in this situation since 2006 but our office is due to close in September 2010. Because of all the stress and uncertainty caused by not knowing whether the terms of the existing CSCS would be honoured by the government I - along with many others - have probably "jumped ship" sooner than we needed to. Nothing has been said to me about PILON... I would be intertested to know if this was applicable in my circumstances.

Sounds like you must have also "volunteered" for redundancy, rather than take a relocation package, so I'm afraid the PILON option wouldn't be a possibility for you either. The rules on notice can be found in Chapter 11 of the Civil Service Management Code here civilservice.gov.uk/about/work/codes/csmc/index.aspx

50Twuncle

I was in a similar position in May - I was told that if I accepted the T&C offered - I would receive 6 months PILON which I did
I left the civil service on a Voluntary basis but with Compulsary terms
I have been signing on since then also (DWP are aware of my payout)
Plus I received the full Reserved Rights settlement (about 7 years gross pay)
It appears that the government is pushing ahead with the rules changes - despite (obvious) unions reluctance ....
The CSCS goes some way to make up for poor pay over the years.

From my union website....

a) The civil service compensation scheme is a statutory scheme under Section 1 of The Superannuation Act 1972. I understand primary legislation such as this can only be changed by parliament. As there is no bill before parliament to change Section 1 of The Superannuation Act 1972 I believe the proposed changes are unlawful.
b) Any proposed changes to the civil service compensation scheme as contained within Section 1 of The Superannuation Act 1972 have to be agreed with the civil service unions. It is my understanding that the Cabinet Office has been unable to agree the proposed changes to the civil service compensation scheme with the civil service unions. I therefore believe the proposed changes are unconstitutional and cannot proceed.
c) I have accrued rights under the civil service pension scheme. I believe that the government’s intention to remove those accrued rights is unlawful.

cepheus

Thanks for this information. Nesty, what date did you precisely join the Civil Service and where you a mobile grade?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/33007175#Comment_33007175

Nesty

I joined the Civil Service in 1988 at 16! When I left I was EO grade, that grade is mobile, but our company would not enforce that agreement. Instead there were options set up. You could take the money, transfer to another office in the company (though some were going to close within 2 years and at that time no one knew which ones). Or you could transfer to DWP, as they were taking people on.

I eventally took my package last July. I was fed up with the conflicting information I was recieving from the union and and Management. I don't regret it, I had a nice summer break.