Landlord trying to charge £506 out of deposit - but no inventory

tbs624

Of the £500 proposed deductions you say that £150 is for your share of the cleaning costs. You admit that you didn't clean the property and then you left your personal possession behind, and you admit that some furnishings were "worn and torn".

I think you will probably be aware that the LL is right to expect the return of the property in the same condition as when originally let to you, save for "fair wear and tear" . If the furnishings were in poor condition at the start of the tenancy you may have had an argument: I may be misinterpreting what you have said but are you saying that after the initial let the furnishings had deteriorated to the point of being worn and torn at the start of the second AST? What you need to be clear on is that "fair wear and tear" includes things becoming worn due to general use and the passage of time but does not include dirt and damage -ie, the "tear" bit does not actually include things being torn.

However the LL cannot seek "betterment" and if items need repair or replacement then he can only bring things back to the same level, not ie, end up with you footing the bill entirely for a brand new blind if the original blind was 3 years old when you first moved in.He may have receipts to prove age ( Edit - and you did specifically say there was an original inventory. : was this signed by all of the original Ts and the LL?

As your deposit is scheme-registered you can raise a dispute if you don't agree with the deductions but I think it's possible that you know that he is being reasonable.

I don't understand why Ts think it is acceptable to leave their dirt & old junk behind for a LL to clear up - perhaps it's a hark back to mum and dad constantly picking up after them?;)

Fire_Fox

schnide wrote: »

Several items were already worn and torn, such as the blinds and sofas. The sofas were worn to the point where the landlord asked me several months ago if I would like them once we moved out, as they intended to replace them. I also have emails stating they already intended to replace the blinds, paint some walls, some other repairs once we'd moved out.

We moved out and left several items in the flat - Christmas lights, several food items, a duvet or two. We also partially cleaned the flat but had agreed that we would pay some costs (around £120 total) for a professional cleaner as per the previous tenants if we could agree that up-front sum rather than do it ourselves, as we knew they'd already get cleaners in anyway.

The landlords refused to pre-agree the partial cost, as I believe is their right, to visit the property. They've now produced a list of what we think is entirely unreasonable costs, suggesting that all the items they'd already agreed they would be replacing anyway have been damaged by us. They've said it took 6 1/2 man hours to clear the flat before any cleaning took place. They have said that they will cap our part of the cleaning costs at £150 total, but are saying we are partly responsible for many replacement items.

In total, they are saying they will keep ~£500 total of our deposit. Although I have every suspicion they expect us to bargain them down, I object to the fact they've even suggested we're responsible for anywhere near this.

I suspect you have put your landlord's back up by leaving all your rubbish to be cleared up. As stated by your LL it costs time and money to clear the property, the cleaners/ decorators may have been hanging around while this took place. Then either a skip is required or the landlord will need to pay to have the binmen/ council dump take them as trade waste. Leaving food in the house once you have vacated could be a health hazard!

It seems very easy to justify £300 on clearing and cleaning, that only leaves £200 for damage from a £2800 deposit - if you treated the place and your LL with as little respect as your post suggests then you have got away lightly. They could even argue that an extra day was required between lets due to the state you left the place in.

schnide

Fire_Fox wrote: »

I suspect you have put your landlord's back up by leaving all your rubbish to be cleared up. As stated by your LL it costs time and money to clear the property, the cleaners/ decorators may have been hanging around while this took place. Then either a skip is required or the landlord will need to pay to have the binmen/ council dump take them as trade waste. Leaving food in the house once you have vacated could be a health hazard!

It seems very easy to justify £300 on clearing and cleaning, that only leaves £200 for damage from a £2800 deposit - if you treated the place and your LL with as little respect as your post suggests then you have got away lightly. They could even argue that an extra day was required between lets due to the state you left the place in.

Fire Fox - I'm not sure what part of my post suggested to you that I treated the property or particularly my landlords with disrespect. I'll actually state for my own sake if nothing else that I've treated them with incredible respect, including when they let us live in a flat so cold over winter that I could see my own breath condensing, and when the flat had two seperate ceiling leaks, one of which left us without any bathroom flooring and bare concrete for a month.

None of these issues are chargeable on our part and I didn't mention them because I know this, but they are nevertheless part of the situation and one which you're in no position to pass judgement on so easily.

If leaving a tub of butter, an almost-empty bottle of Diet Coke and a half pint of milk which we knew would only be in there for a day and was only left as an oversight takes you six and a half hours to clear the flat along with two sets of fairy lights and some baubles, please remind me never to hire your removal company. We had already agreed to part-pay for professional cleaners before we moved out and I don't know many cleaning firms who would take their bill up by much for taking these out.

clutton_2

""a tub of butter, an almost-empty bottle of Diet Coke and a half pint of milk ""

why did you leave these - wasn't there a dustbin nearby ?

Fire_Fox

schnide wrote: »

We moved out and left several items in the flat - Christmas lights, several food items, a duvet or two. We also partially cleaned the flat but had agreed that we would pay some costs (around £120 total) for a professional cleaner as per the previous tenants if we could agree that up-front sum rather than do it ourselves, as we knew they'd already get cleaners in anyway.

Fire Fox - I'm not sure what part of my post suggested to you that I treated the property or particularly my landlords with disrespect. I'll actually state for my own sake if nothing else that I've treated them with incredible respect, including when they let us live in a flat so cold over winter that I could see my own breath condensing, and when the flat had two seperate ceiling leaks, one of which left us without any bathroom flooring and bare concrete for a month.

If leaving a tub of butter, an almost-empty bottle of Diet Coke and a half pint of milk which we knew would only be in there for a day and was only left as an oversight takes you six and a half hours to clear the flat along with two sets of fairy lights and some baubles, please remind me never to hire your removal company. We had already agreed to part-pay for professional cleaners before we moved out and I don't know many cleaning firms who would take their bill up by much for taking these out.

The bold parts suggested a lack of respect. Legally your rubbish should be disposed of as trade waste which means it costs the cleaning company for it to be removed. It may be the cleaners/ waste management company took the view that food items and used bedding are a potential health hazard and needed special handling, plus baubles are made of glass and bulbs contain toxic chemicals ... There may have been an awful lot of red tape/ overkill associated with your waste tho this is pure speculation on my part.

schnide

Well I think in the grand scheme of things that's far from a lack of respect, and only anyone wanting to enforce absolutely everything down to the letter of the law would consider that worth the amount of money that it's been proposed we pay for this.

I'm still waiting for an explanation from the landlords or from anyone on here how it takes 7 1/2 hours to remove those items (but you might know a law for that one too).

Thank you for your insight.

tbs624

schnide wrote: »

Well I think in the grand scheme of things that's far from a lack of respect, and only anyone wanting to enforce absolutely everything down to the letter of the law would consider that worth the amount of money that it's been proposed we pay for this.

I'm still waiting for an explanation from the landlords or from anyone on here how it takes 7 1/2 hours to remove those items (but you might know a law for that one too).

Thank you for your insight.

Schnide - are you perhaps getting stroppy because the answers that you have received to date aren't what you had hoped for?

Any previous repairs issue have nothing to do with this - you presumably notified the LL and they were dealt with. If you wanted some form of negotiation on the rent for the duration of those repairs then you should have discussed that one at the time.

You said it took the LL "6 and a half hours" in your original post, now it's "7 and a half"? You said you left possessions behind, including a "duvet or two" ? Sounds like you simply took a decision to offload anything you didn't want ( & perhaps can't remember exactly how much stuff was involved) and expected the LL to simply clear up after you and smile about it. It doesn't work like that - show some maturity.

We can only go on the info you post up and to many of us it sounds as though the LL is probably justified in making some deductions. As your deposit *is* scheme-registered you can, as I said before, raise a dispute with the scheme administrators if you don't agree with the LL's proposals. If you do, maybe you'd let the Board know how you get on?

clutton_2

This post heading says "no inventory"- yet we read that there is an inventory (albeit one that the OP thinks should not be legally used) - this makes me wonder how much of the rest of story to believe ..... especially in view of the exageration which is apparent

schnide

I honestly thought it was six and a half hours when I first posted and since further communications with the landlords, who've now admitted in writing that they were already planning to throw out items such as the sofas, I've noticed it was 7 and a half hours.

I'm not quite sure why you're insinuating I'd make anything up because I want genuine advice on the actual situation. Some things, such as the food, were left as an oversight. I also left items in the property which increase the value such as a hardly used food processor and a stereo. I also left a new, boxed toy I had spare for the landlords' children, such was the good relationship I'd enjoyed with them virtually up until that point.

I appreciate you don't know the entire facts and am going from my overview, but some of the conclusions you've jumped to are unfairly harsh.

To clarify, there was no inventory from this current tenancy. I'm not quite sure morally or legally how justified it is for the landlord to claim against at least the one new tenant, as well as the previous two, on any other inventory.

The reason I'm taking offence is because you're making judgements and criticising my behaviour as a tenant when I believe I've behaved appropriately. Randoms on an internet forum you may be, but that still doesn't make it right.

I am, nevertheless, grateful for your insight. The landlords have as expected asked to negotiate on the claims they've made against us.

sooz

schnide wrote: »

I'm not quite sure why you're insinuating I'd make anything up because I want genuine advice on the actual situation. Some things, such as the food, were left as an oversight. I also left items in the property which increase the value such as a hardly used food processor and a stereo. I also left a new, boxed toy I had spare for the landlords' children, such was the good relationship I'd enjoyed with them virtually up until that point.


You might have thought this added to the value of the property, but it's just something else left behind which either needs an electrical safety check, probably doesn't have instructions, probably needs cleaning to some degree (items in kitchens are usually covered in a layer of grease...in my own too ). It's very unlikely any of this stuff is actually kept, so it needs to be disposed of in some way.

To clarify, there was no inventory from this current tenancy. I'm not quite sure morally or legally how justified it is for the landlord to claim against at least the one new tenant, as well as the previous two, on any other inventory.

The reason I'm taking offence is because you're making judgements and criticising my behaviour as a tenant when I believe I've behaved appropriately. Randoms on an internet forum you may be, but that still doesn't make it right.

I am, nevertheless, grateful for your insight. The landlords have as expected asked to negotiate on the claims they've made against us.

Certainly negotiate. You can always try, & it's preferable to ending up in court. However, I disgree with your views on the inventory. You did have one at the start of the tenancy. You simply changed one tenant. To do a check out & check in on the whole property when this new tenant moved in, would have required you to remove all your belongings from the property, & thoroughly clean, 4 months into your tenancy, before moving back in. I can just see the complaints had your LL asked you to do that.