The recession, benefits, the safety net, and the learning curve

geoffky

i have been saying for years a life on benefits are very grim and not the great party time a lot of people would have you believe....welcome to the real world...

Oldernotwiser

PasturesNew wrote: »

If you are a home owner on JSA, you get £64.30 and are responsible for the building insurance/maintenance etc.

If you are a career benefits blagger, you are 99% most likely to be renting and so don't have any of these costs.

That's true but it's a terrible generalisation that people who've just become unemployed own their own houses and those who are long term unemployed rent.

Apart from anything else, the two groups are not totally separate; there are many people who may think at the moment that they're only signing on for a short time who might find that period lengthening to months and years. It'll be interesting then to see how many people are quite so caustic about the long term unemployed. "There but for the grace of God" and all that....

lostinrates

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

That's true but it's a terrible generalisation that people who've just become unemployed own their own houses and those who are long term unemployed rent.

Apart from anything else, the two groups are not totally separate; there are many people who may think at the moment that they're only signing on for a short time who might find that period lengthening to months and years. It'll be interesting then to see how many people are quite so caustic about the long term unemployed. "There but for the grace of God" and all that....

Well, as a falling into longterm unemployed person (no longer actively seeking work) I have some sympathy. But those genuine people:victims of circumstance are not, and never have been the people at whom frustration has been vented in this thread. In many thrads I'll grant you, there is a huge and irrationa hatred of anyone receiving any handout: but in this thread it seems people ahve been quite rational if frustrated.

lynzpower

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

A single unemployed (working) person will have the same housing expenses if they're renting.

If you've been working recently you probably have plenty of interview clothes, it's when you've been unemployed for a long time that interview clothes become a problem.

Also if you happen to have a flat or another sort of leasehold property, that you are mortgaged/ own, you will more as likely have a service charge. In my flat ( the one I sold) it was IRO £70 month. The more luxe development over the road was ( I heard from the EA) 135pcm.

If you are having to pay 135 pcm out of 226 or whatever the 4x JSA figure is you are royally stuffed. Also, on my previous lease, if you didnt pay for the service charge, then they COULD ( although I guess quite unlikely!) petition for eviction off the leasehold , effectively meaning that the lease + home is "at risk"

Dont have anything further to add, but just want to wish all moneysavers Best of luck in finding work in these times, it really could be a while, so of course slash back everything you can.

Max ( and anyone else whos looking) there are some fab threads on the OS board on eating for 50p a day, and there are lots of free food opportunities too. Dont forget mysetery shoping where you - as long as you have the cash to pay for the meal- will get paid for eating out. £5.00 plus. You do generally need your own transport though or ability to get around ( bike?) Do surveys and make sure you use all vouchers, waitrose takes vouchers whether you have bought the product or not. Try speaking to your local allottments and see what Wild Food is in your area.

Good luck to all, best to be positive, this recession is likely to go a good while yet xx

BleepinHell

Max_Headroom wrote: »

The one thing this recession is going to do is wake people like myself up to what the benefit system is actually about.

I've worked full time in continuous employment since I left school 25 (is it really that long!?) year ago. And I've been fortunate enough never to need to claim anything, I've just jogged along earning my money, paying my taxes, living my life.

And naively (as it turns out) I've paid those taxes in part in the belief that I'm contributing to the countries benefit system which is helping out those that need help, safe in the knowledge that there but for the grace of God go I. And that should I ever be in the unfortunate position of being unable to support myself, that very same benefit system will be my safety net should I need it.

Sure, I've had the odd rant in the past like everyone else about the benefit scroungers of society. It seems every other month the Daily Mail unearths another family of eight pulling in £30K a year worth of benefits and living in a five bedroom detached house all at the expense of Joe Taxpayer. and on a more personal level, I know of several people seemingly able to live life quite happily without a thought toward getting a job, nice little terraced house, secondhand car, treats for the kids and a modest holiday once a year. And that irks, but as is often said, that's the price we pay in this country for a safety net that keeps everyone afloat. The system is bound to be open to some abuse, that's just how it is.

Ok so, recession hits, the business I'm working in almost completely flat-lines, and after a year of sitting in my office staring out of the window and wondering how long they're going to continue to pay me for doing nothing I get my answer. They're not. I'm out. Fair enough, I can cope with that, honestly can't blame them. The business isn't there and only a major re-structure is going to save the company. Unfortunately I'm (along with many others) re-structured out the door.

I hit the ground running, my CVs are in the post like confetti, I'm all over the job sites, I'm on the phone, I'm Mr. Proactive, I've got history, I've got experience, I'll get another job and we'll keep the plates spinning.

No.

Two months and one deafening silence later and I've not had a single offer of an interview. The enormity of all those hours of BBC news broadcasts and reams of newsprint hit home. This is serious. And this isn't happening to somebody else, this is happening to me, now.

So thank god for the benefit system this country proudly boasts. Thank god for the safety net that has it's problems, but doesn't allow anyone to slip through, a cradle of support for those in dire need. And I am in dire need.

So I find myself on the phone and I find myself in the job centre and I find myself answering question after question and I'm signed on.

And what do I get? £64-30/week. That's less than £3.5K a year. That's £279 a month. I can also claim help with my council tax. And that, I'm told, is it.

And for that I have to trot down to the job centre once a fortnight with my homework for marking. What jobs have I applied for? Who've I phoned? Where've I looked? After all, they don't want me putting my feet up and retiring on this bountiful income do they?

So what happened to this safety net? What, in fact, am I supposed to live on? Ok I'm fortunate, I've got a small amount of savings. But what if the roof falls off tomorrow and the builder tells me it's going to cost all of that to fix it? What, actually, will I live on then? I live very modestly but the JSA barely covers the bills. I can't actually therefore afford to eat. Pretty basic stuff I'd have thought.

So, like many others, I find myself questioning.

Why is this "safety net" failing a hard working tax paying single man? What were all those tens of thousands of pounds I've put into the system for?

And how is the single girl I know who's been living on benefits as long as I've known her (several years) able to afford to run a car and has just bought a pair of £130 Nike trainers for her sons birthday? I can't afford to eat on my benefits!

There is something very messed up with this system. And I think that as this recession bites deeper and deeper and people like myself suddenly become face to face with a reality they thought would never affect them, there's going to be a sharp learning curve as to what the benefit system actually is and a lot of people like myself are going to have the benefit system brought into sharp focus.

And what they (we) will see is that it's not a safety net at all. It won't save you when you need it, it won't provide temporary support at all, it just doesn't work that way. But yet it does at the same time allow many many people to live quite happily for years carving out a reasonable standard of living from it.

Something here is very very wrong.

And it desperately needs to change.

I sympathise Max. But be aware how the system screws people like you.
your best bet would would be to turn up at your local immigration centre and claim asylum. Say you are from ......say Turkey you are a Kurd.
Watch the benefits come rolling in.

VeryGreen

Just one thing… You say that you have payed off the mortgage over the years through overpayments. Someone here mentioned 'deprivation of capital to obtain benefit'. This does not have to take place just before making a claim for means-tested benefits but at any time during the term of the mortgage. Basically, if you at any time in the term of your mortgage made any overpayments and your mortgage was payed off early, the government takes it as if you still had that money in savings - call it 'notional savings', applies 'notional income' to that - and you are supposed to live off that. Even if you don't have any money - go figure

After six months of contribution-based JSA – nothing.

Oldernotwiser

BleepinHell wrote: »

I sympathise Max. But be aware how the system screws people like you.
your best bet would would be to turn up at your local immigration centre and claim asylum. Say you are from ......say Turkey you are a Kurd.
Watch the benefits come rolling in.

That's a ridiculous and racist thing to say. An asylum seeker would receive no more income than Max does, apart from having rent paid.

Oldernotwiser

VeryGreen wrote: »

Just one thing… You say that you have payed off the mortgage over the years through overpayments. Someone here mentioned 'deprivation of capital to obtain benefit'. This does not have to take place just before making a claim for means-tested benefits but at any time during the term of the mortgage. Basically, if you at any time in the term of your mortgage made any overpayments and your mortgage was payed off early, the government takes it as if you still had that money in savings - call it 'notional savings', applies 'notional income' to that - and you are supposed to live off that. Even if you don't have any money - go figure

After six months of contribution-based JSA – nothing.

That's untrue, although based on a nugget of truth. Regular overpayments like this wouldn't affect any future benefits although, if you used all your savings to pay off your mortgage as soon as you became unemployed, this might be considered to be the case.

I do understand many of the frustrations displayed on this thread but I cannot believe the ignorance displayed as well. That's the main reason I keep bashing on, I'm just trying to correct some of the misapprehensions.

ceridwen

PasturesNew wrote: »

No. He'd lose some of this council tax benefit and he'd be allowed to keep £5/week from the lodger as "income" and the rest would (£ for £) be taken from his £64.30.


It is most likely that "they" would deem it all income and he'd end up having a lodger and £5 in his hand extra for the hassle/risk. And he'd have to change his household insurance and pay extra for a lodger.

Crikey - then thats another cut in benefit that has been made in recent years then - I thought I'd got the measure of the rollcall of all those cuts. Back years ago - it was always a little "safety net" in my head - "oh well...I could always take in a lodger if need be". As - back then - they didnt deduct much money from the rent a lodger gave one - think it was a fixed deduction of £12 per week? (cant be sure my memory serves me correct on that though.....) - so I would still have had a noticeable benefit from taking a lodger in. To think that all these years of inflation later the amount one can keep has gone from what I estimated would have been about £30 odd per week keepable after deduction/lodger costs to £5:eek:

As you say - not worth the hassle for peanuts like that.....

(thinks....though one could get "creative" and charge lodgers £5 per week and their share of the fuel bills would be 100% of them.....hmmm....

....but, as you say, why SHOULD you have to share your home against your will?)

cuddlymarm

Hi

I think one of the main problems is that the system (not just the state but also private system) is set up so that people don't necessarily or can't make provision eg we were self employed so couldn't take out unemployment/mortgage insurance because you couldn't prove when you were unemployed. Also you find with so many clauses that stop you claiming that they make it really difficult to claim so a lot of people don't bother. And its not just the fact that benefits are low. When you suddenly lose income you can't just get rid of any surplace expenses straight away. Sky, telephone, broadband etc won't just say 'Oh OK just stop paying' You find it takes time to get used to living a on a lower budget.

If OH lost his job tomorrow (I haven't got a job at the moment but because we were self employed can't claim anything) I worked out that we wouldn't even get enough to cover the rent but you can't just move house perhaps there should be a slightly higher rate at first to allow people to make contingency plans. This is supposed to be an emergency measure not a life choice ( before anyone shouts at me those that can't work and I do believe that a parent is better off bringing up kids than working) maybe there should be a seperate department for dealing with the old, ill and groups that need to be cared for.

Cuddles