unenforceable loans.

keithboy40

so has anyone ever had a loan written off. I read alot about unenforceable loans, however i have yet o meet or read anyone who has hada loan written off.

stebiz

keithboy40 wrote: »

so has anyone ever had a loan written off. I read alot about unenforceable loans, however i have yet o meet or read anyone who has hada loan written off.

Yes I have had 5 CCA's made unenforceable but am currently going through an appeal on a 6th - as the judge clearly did not understand the law.

aj2703

stebiz wrote: »

Yes I have had 5 CCA's made unenforceable but am currently going through an appeal on a 6th - as the judge clearly did not understand the law.

Tell us more, would be interested to hear your story.

orangetrader

cyril82 wrote: »

What you say here is not true, a lender must provide a true copy of the document with your signature on it, if what you are saying was true all the lender would have to do to comply with a request for a copy of the consumer credit agreement would be pluck a blank loan agreement out of the filing cabinate and bingo, job done. That is not the case.

Hard to believe I know but what I say here is true Cyril

RBS are known to use this tactic. They construct them using the data keyed at the time the loan was granted and using the agreement format in use at the time. Whether this would stand up in a court of law is questionable but it does happen so people need to be aware of this practice.

This is from an article in the guardian on the subject from last year.
Under current legislation, banks must, if requested by a customer, provide them with a "true copy" of their credit agreement within a certain period, otherwise the bank may have difficulty enforcing it. But the Office of Fair Trading says a bank "may supply a 'reconstruction', only in the sense that it is providing exactly the same information as appeared on the original agreement".

sam_wells

the loan was taken out in june 2006

sam_wells

wow stebiz. how did you do it. what did you put in your letters and please keep us posted of the outcome. have heard about people re claiming but never heard of a succses story.

cyril82

orangetrader wrote: »

cyril82 wrote: »

What you say here is not true, a lender must provide a true copy of the document with your signature on it, if what you are saying was true all the lender would have to do to comply with a request for a copy of the consumer credit agreement would be pluck a blank loan agreement out of the filing cabinate and bingo, job done. That is not the case.

Hard to believe I know but what I say here is true Cyril

RBS are known to use this tactic. They construct them using the data keyed at the time the loan was granted and using the agreement format in use at the time. Whether this would stand up in a court of law is questionable but it does happen so people need to be aware of this practice.

This is from an article in the guardian on the subject from last year.
Under current legislation, banks must, if requested by a customer, provide them with a "true copy" of their credit agreement within a certain period, otherwise the bank may have difficulty enforcing it. But the Office of Fair Trading says a bank "may supply a 'reconstruction', only in the sense that it is providing exactly the same information as appeared on the original agreement".

Oh i know that some banks do that, the same as some will scan your signature onto an agreement if you sign the request or send a cheque for £1 fee, i thought you were saying it was definitive proof. In these instances though all that is required is for the borrower to deny that they signed that agreement, or to refuse to accept it as evidence of an agreement between the two parties, the bank would then need to progress through the courts to prove it was but how can they prove it without the persons signature?

It is no more than a ploy to try and get people to back down in my view.

I doubt very much it could be taken as definitive proof in a court without the signature, as i said, they could just pull any document out of the filing cabinet, it would be a great opportunity if the original agreement was flawed to "correct" it before going to court.

stebiz

Sure no problem. Stems back to early 2001. I had about 12 cards and loans. I was pretty well maxed out. I had a lot of collateral in several properties but owed about 50k (approx) on unsecured.

Well the truth is it got me down. Each day another phone call. Each day more interest and more charges. I was starting to fall into depression with all the money outstanding. The interest alone was about £200 a week.

So one morning I decided to cut the cards up and basically tell the card companies that I did not have the money. I stopped my self employment work in order to have a break. It was either that or I'd have had a breakdown. I wrote to all the companies and offered £5 a month and sat back and waited. Some were great and stopped interest straight away. Other continued to lash on the interest. Other never contacted me. It was a bit sureal really.

Anyway to cut a long story short I continued to pay a fiver a month. I contemplated bankruptcy but this would have wiped out all the money I had in my properties. Too right you may say, but I disagree. Anyway after 12 months or so I had offers for full and final settlement. I paid 4 off with a maximum of 30% of their value.

Anyway the others continued to contact me. One night whilst searching the net I went onto a debt forum. One guy (a retired QC) told me to send a pound away and ask for the credit agreements. If they didn't have agreements they couldn't enforce them. This I did. Three had lost them. 2 Never replied. Three had the 'agreements'.

Two of the 3 who never had agreements took me to court and were basically laughed out by the judge. The other took the sensible approach and admitted defeat.

This now left me with only 3 out of 8 to sort out. The next approach was to find faults with them. The first one was for £10,000. The company had a copy of an application form but not with all the prescribed terms. The clerk they sent panicked and the judge awarded in my favour. The second was dismissed because it did not have terms and conditions embodied in the agreement. The last one is the most difficult but should have been the most easy one. It was for a credit card but again this was an application form and a microfiche copy at that. The wording was barely legible. The otherside had counsel and a witness and the judge awarded on moral grounds and on the basis of probability, against my strongest argument. I requested an appeal and was denied. However I have since put in an appeal on the basis of law, and it is at present with a judge. I should hear in the next week or so.

I could write all day about it but you have the basis of what happened.

Stebiz

cyril82

stebiz wrote: »

Sure no problem. Stems back to early 2001. I had about 12 cards and loans. I was pretty well maxed out. I had a lot of collateral in several properties but owed about 50k (approx) on unsecured.

Well the truth is it got me down. Each day another phone call. Each day more interest and more charges. I was starting to fall into depression with all the money outstanding. The interest alone was about £200 a week.

So one morning I decided to cut the cards up and basically tell the card companies that I did not have the money. I stopped my self employment work in order to have a break. It was either that or I'd have had a breakdown. I wrote to all the companies and offered £5 a month and sat back and waited. Some were great and stopped interest straight away. Other continued to lash on the interest. Other never contacted me. It was a bit sureal really.

Anyway to cut a long story short I continued to pay a fiver a month. I contemplated bankruptcy but this would have wiped out all the money I had in my properties. Too right you may say, but I disagree. Anyway after 12 months or so I had offers for full and final settlement. I paid 4 off with a maximum of 30% of their value.

Anyway the others continued to contact me. One night whilst searching the net I went onto a debt forum. One guy (a retired QC) told me to send a pound away and ask for the credit agreements. If they didn't have agreements they couldn't enforce them. This I did. Three had lost them. 2 Never replied. Three had the 'agreements'.

Two of the 3 who never had agreements took me to court and were basically laughed out by the judge. The other took the sensible approach and admitted defeat.

This now left me with only 3 out of 8 to sort out. The next approach was to find faults with them. The first one was for £10,000. The company had a copy of an application form but not with all the prescribed terms. The clerk they sent panicked and the judge awarded in my favour. The second was dismissed because it did not have terms and conditions embodied in the agreement. The last one is the most difficult but should have been the most easy one. It was for a credit card but again this was an application form and a microfiche copy at that. The wording was barely legible. The otherside had counsel and a witness and the judge awarded on moral grounds and on the basis of probability, against my strongest argument. I requested an appeal and was denied. However I have since put in an appeal on the basis of law, and it is at present with a judge. I should hear in the next week or so.

I could write all day about it but you have the basis of what happened.

Stebiz

in instances like this many will aim insults at you but they way i see it the greedy banks were happy to allow you to over commit yourself because you had assets that they could take away, think about it what is better for them, wait 10 years for their interest to be paid or over commit someone with large assets, repo him within 1-2 years and sell his assets to get back the whole of the interest they would have made in 10 years plus default charges.

I know you say most were unsecured but they don't care as they know in such cases they can still apply for charging orders or try to force bankruptcy if they think you have assets to cover the debt.

stebiz

cyril82 wrote: »

in instances like this many will aim insults at you but they way i see it the greedy banks were happy to allow you to over commit yourself because you had assets that they could take away, think about it what is better for them, wait 10 years for their interest to be paid or over commit someone with large assets, repo him within 1-2 years and sell his assets to get back the whole of the interest they would have made in 10 years plus default charges.

I know you say most were unsecured but they don't care as they know in such cases they can still apply for charging orders or try to force bankruptcy if they think you have assets to cover the debt.

I agree with you. Most will find this unpalatable however I am telling it as it is. Not boasting or anything. I was just answering a question. Banks have no morals either, I think we've seen this of late - and incidentally it didn't go all my way. My banking shares have lost about 10k in the last 12 months.

Regards
Stebiz