Tax credits renewal help - childcare vouchers

[Deleted User]

KevinG wrote: »

Not true, as several have posted. I don't know why the vouchers are not deducted from the P60 figure, but they aren't, I've checked.

See my previous post for the reason. It's only relevant if you are claiming for the childcare costs.

You declare the TOTAL TAXABLE AMOUNT - the amount paid for the vouchers is not taxable so wouldnt be included in this figure.

The TCO guidance states that the details of the salary sacrifice scheme (childcare vouchers) must be sent when updating your income figures regardless of whether you claim help towards childcare costs or not.

Note: Childcare voucher scemes are not the only salary sacrifice schemes. If you participate in any other sort of salary sacrifice scheme you should tell TCO about this too.

[Deleted User]

EMcG wrote: »

I am also completely confused.

I called the tax credits 'helpline' 2 weeks ago to see if I could claim for help with childcare. I gave them all the details as asked and told them how much I pay after childcare vouchers. The amount is £45 per week. I was told that I should get about £80 a month extra and three months backdated.

I didn't hear anything so called again today and was told that this was all wrong and that I must send various documents including my original contract, wage slips before and after the childcare vouchers started, the agreement between my employers and the childcare voucher company as well as a document stating the 'contract variance during the scheme' to The Physical Changes In Circumstance Team in Liverpool.

The gent on the phone has said that he thinks (givem my income) I qualify. But I'm going to find it pretty hard getting all this documentation for both myself and my wife to actually prove it.

Martin - can you and your team look into this? It seems purposely designed to make it near impossible to actually make a claim even if you are advised that you are entitled to help.

Also why do HMRC need all our tax details when they themselves oversee all this? Surely they have all these details? I find it weird that we have to phone up informing them of the amount on the P60 when they issued said P60 to us in the first place.

Would you expect the customs department to know your salary?

HMRC has many different sections. Tax Credits has nothing to do with Taxes.

It is not compulsory for anyone to claim tax credits and it is fair that you should be expected to be responsible for providing certain information in order to keep your details up to date. TCO ask for your income but remember that there are so many sources to check (earnings, benefits, bank interest, dividends, self employed earnings, foreign income....) it would cost too much for TCO to search the individual sources for every person who claims.


TCO should not need the details of the salary sacrifice scheme prior to claiming the costs from TCO. You should call them if you dont have a new award notice soon showing the childcare costs. You may or may not qualify dependant on your income but make sure the details are on the award.
If the details are not on the award or you dont receive a new award call them and tell them you want the childcare costs added to your claim as you pay part of the childcare costs that are not covered by vouchers. Dont let them tell you that the details must be sent first as this is not true. If you are told this ask to speak to a manager and enquire why the adviser has told you to provide the salary sacrifice details prior to having the costs added to your claim when there is nothing in the guidance (for the customer or the adviser) which states this.

EMcG

Many thanks for the advice. I will call and let you know what happens.

By the way, I love the line 'Tax Credits has nothing to do with Taxes.'

UPDATE: I called using your exact wording. I was told I had no entitlement. We have a household income of 26K with childcare costs (after childcare vouchers) of £45 p/w.

Thanks for the advice anyway. It is appreciated.

Rince

Hi, The P60 figure is definately the correct figure to give to Tax credits. After my inital post, I sat down and carefully calculated my salary minus the childcare vouchers and this was the same as the amount on my P60.

When I was talking to TCO back in march I asked about the governement thing where when your child is 3 years old you get 5 lots of 2.5 hour sessions. My nursery deducts this off the bill. When I mentioned it to the tax credits they said all they wanted to know was what was the bill left to pay after Childcare vouchers and the governement bit. They never asked me for any documentation about the salary sacrifce and if they did i'd be stuck as I don't have any. All I have is my payroll number.
Makes you wonder if they know what they're doing !

KevinG

subsoniccoyote wrote: »

You declare the TOTAL TAXABLE AMOUNT - the amount paid for the vouchers is not taxable so wouldnt be included in this figure.

That would indeed be logical, in which case it is unfortunate that many employers do not deduct the value of the vouchers from the taxable pay reported on the P60, as was the case with my wife and others (but not all, it seems) who have posted on this thread. I have probably over-reported our income for last year but I think we already got the maximum so it doesn't make any difference.

subsoniccoyote wrote: »

The TCO guidance states that the details of the salary sacrifice scheme (childcare vouchers) must be sent when updating your income figures regardless of whether you claim help towards childcare costs or not.

Note: Childcare voucher scemes are not the only salary sacrifice schemes. If you participate in any other sort of salary sacrifice scheme you should tell TCO about this too.

In which case it is a shame that the notes sent with the form make no refernce whatsoever to this. I have searched the online version just to check - the only reference is "Other changes you should tell us about ... your childcare costs go down because your employer starts providing you with childcare vouchers or childcare." on page 15.

You seem to want to defend a scheme which is, at best, a total mess and the sooner it is abolished and replaced with something sensible (even though I get a massive amount from it at present), the better. Sorry, off-topic for this board I know.

[Deleted User]

I have found this information within TCO guidance.

It would seem that not all Salary Sacrifice Schemes are accepted by TCO.
They will decide if you must declare the sacrificed amount or not.

I have to say though, I have NEVER seen any childcare vouchers schemes declined by TCO.


Salary Sacrifice Scheme

Salary sacrifice happens when an employee requests to give up part of the pay due to them, in return for the employer’s agreement to provide the employee with some form of non-cash benefit. The 'sacrifice' is achieved by varying the employee's terms and conditions of employment relating to pay.
We consider each salary sacrifice scheme on its own merits. When the claimant tells you that they are joining a salary sacrifice scheme they need to provide details of the scheme. The information we need is

• The contract variation for the claimant who has joined the scheme. If there is more than one scheme we need the contract variation for each scheme
• The original contract of employment
• A payslip before and after the variation
• The agreement between the employer and the benefit provider
• All other documents relevant to the scheme, for example any booklets given to the claimant as a guide

Once all information is received, all details will be sent to Technical Advice Line (TAL). TAL will then forward the details to the (This text has been withheld because of exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act 2000) who will decide whether the salary sacrifice should be included or excluded from the claimant’s income, based on the information supplied about the scheme.
Note: You must not comment on how to set up a salary sacrifice arrangement or whether the customer should join a salary sacrifice scheme

[Deleted User]

KevinG wrote: »

That would indeed be logical, in which case it is unfortunate that many employers do not deduct the value of the vouchers from the taxable pay reported on the P60, as was the case with my wife and others (but not all, it seems) who have posted on this thread. I have probably over-reported our income for last year but I think we already got the maximum so it doesn't make any difference.

This was obviously an issue with the employer and not TCO. It is not TCO's responsibility to make sure the salary sacrifice schemes are run correctly by your employer.

KevinG wrote: »

In which case it is a shame that the notes sent with the form make no refernce whatsoever to this. I have searched the online version just to check - the only reference is "Other changes you should tell us about ... your childcare costs go down because your employer starts providing you with childcare vouchers or childcare." on page 15.

If you notify TCO of a change in income - which you would if you were taking part in a salary sacrifice scheme - you would be asked if it is due to a change of hours, change of employer or due to a salary sacrifice scheme. Unfortunately it is not possible to print hundreds of pages of guidance for each claimant.

KevinG wrote: »

You seem to want to defend a scheme which is, at best, a total mess and the sooner it is abolished and replaced with something sensible (even though I get a massive amount from it at present), the better. Sorry, off-topic for this board I know.

Because I am determined to give correct advice doesn't mean that I am not a critic of the tax credits system. If I wished to air my criticisms I would take them to another board as this one is for help and advice, but that is not why I come to this site. I come here to give people the benefit of my experience of having worked for TCO for a number of (mostly stressful) years. TCO is not perfect but I can assure you that a great number of claimants are not perfect either.