Paypal Reversed - How To Notify Police of Fraud?

Tea3

Hi, a paypal transaction for an order back in Feb 09 has been put on hold and due to paypal's one-sided approach it looks like the payment will be refunded back to the buyer tomorrow. The buyer claims her card was stolen prior to Feb but she did not notice until she checked her transactions in May and then notified her bank, paypal etc. I am sorry for the buyer if this is true as it must be horrid however not many card theives have the goods send to the customers home address, with the correct phone number used, the correct date of birth and the correct email address (matching paypal one also, although not confirmed on paypal) - I really cant see any benefit to a card thief to provide correct address and phone number when these can be checked at anytime and the card theif then unable to use the card. Also getting the goods delivered to the customers correct address for 4 months would alert her to the fact someone was using her card and that she no longer had it (you would assume a thief would be smart enough to enter correct billing address but a different delivery address etc).

Anyway my loss is low at around £10 however from a phone call with the customer she said there had been lots of transactions etc so I want to report this as fraud as she has obviously got away with a fair amount of money here or she is dealing with a very stupid thief who sent lots of things to her address - either way she received the goods whether she realised they were paid by her card or not (i am doubtful she didn't know). However as my loss is only £10 which I am not that bothered about getting back, will the police actually take me seriously? I am mainly wanting to report it so her bank gets to know that things were sent to her correct address with all correct details provided - I have phoned the police in her area and they say to report it locally and the local police say they can send an officer out who will decide if its worth following up but I suspect as my loss is only £10 they will say not worth it - is there anything I can do to alert her bank (paypal does not say which bank she is with)? I mainly want them to hopefully look a bit deeper into this as I dont see why she should get away with this if the goods were received by her (thief or no thief involved).

I have repeatedly asked her for the crime ref number for this but she no longer returns calls after the initial one where she answered not knowing who was calling her (think shes screening calls now).

Sorry for long post - my morals get the better of me when I think someone is pulling a fast one.

Brooker_Dave

Tea3 wrote: »

Sorry for long post - my morals get the better of me when I think someone is pulling a fast one.

The police won't care, ebay won't care, paypal won't care.

Sorry, but unless it's over £500 the police will not any interest.

Tea3

Thats what I figured but like I said if she's been doing this for many months then chances are it is in the £100's or more, it just that it seems to be made up of lots of individual transactions rather than one big-value one.

soolin

Ignore Mr Brooker he doesn't have a clue about the rules on paypal.

You can defend a claim for fraudulent use of a card merely by uploading a scan of proof of postage, it doesn't even have to be proof of delivery. That's assuming you keep your COPs as we always advise on here and that you sent the item to the address that paypal said it was OK to send to.

Once you have protected your money you can work out how best to apporach the police with this.

However, when this happened to me last year with a US buyer (his adult son had used his paypal account without permission and father declined to pay his sons purchasers) I tracked them down and emailed them, wrote to them and just said I would be prosecuting, I had the advantage though that both parents wrote to me independently to tell me it wasn't their problem and they were both daft enough to use work based email addresses, so I contacted them via work as well.

Tea3

Thanks Soolin, I have proof of postage but not proof of delivery (paypal asked for this only) however as the payment was unconfirmed it says I am only covered against non-delivery (if I have proof of delivery) but not covered against unauthorised use even if I have proof of delivery anyway. I also cannot even refund the customer as the timeline has passed so just have to wait on paypal taking the payment they have on hold and giving it back to her (hopefully I dont incur any extra charges and only lose the £10). I doubt she will respond to my latest call to her requesting the information so will contact the police again but as its only £10 for me I doubt they will do much anyway but i'm not worried about my £10 just the fact that god knows how many other companies she has done this with and got away with and that really winds me up.

soolin

Go back to paypal and point them to their own rules:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#spp-policy

About half way down the page paragraph 11.7

It has a grid box that shows what you need to have to defend each type of claim, I can't cut and paste otherwise I would put the box here.

However for fraudulent use of a card claim it shows clearly that you need proof of posting'


Postage requirements Protection for Unauthorised Payment Protection for Item Not Received Proof of Postage X

Then it goes onto

1. 11.8 What is “Proof of Postage”?
   Online or physical documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:
   
   1. A status of “shipped” (or equivalent) and the date of postage
   2. The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).
   3. Official acceptance from the shipping company (for example, a postmark, a receipt, or online tracking information).
      Or, if you have Proof of Delivery then you do not need Proof of Postage.

soolin

Be proactive with paypal, they don't know their own rules and are often reluctant to go and check.

Quote all the relevant stuff at them, keep on at them and also open a formal complaint against paypal (go through their help system) if they don't deal with it fast enough.

Tea3

Thanks Soolin - I will dig out the proof and get back in touch with them via the dispute on their website (deadline is tomorrow so will also call them tomorrow when they are open). Hopefully if I win this claim it will strengthen the 'proof' to the police that the goods were sent to her address and some kind of fraud is going on (personally think she went ott with a card/bank account and now trying to get out of paying).

Tea3

UPDATE:
I think for some reason paypal did not take the money back from me after all - I followed Soolins advice and pasted the paypal conditions info into the dispute along with a note saying I had proof of posting I could send them if they let me know which email address to send it to. I have heard nothing back from them or the buyer but on logging in today it shows as closed and now says "The funds that were placed on temporary hold are now available for use" so it looks like I got my money back. Would still like to know if this was a paypal decision as I had not supplied the proof of posting etc or if the buyer thought it was too much hassle and agreed to the transaction being ok (says nothing on paypal to say what happened). Getting my £10 is obviously a little moral victory for me but I still hope other sellers put up a fight too as obviously now no fraud has been commited against me so I cant get police involved but its still sad that she may be de-frauding others incl her bank.