payment from nhs for diet class

Avoriaz

mrsmoneyspender wrote: »

…the nhs are paying you to go to your diet meetings , ie weight watchers, slimming world, rosemary connley
i visited my doctors and asked help for loosing weight and was offered a 12 week program at any of the above classes….

Please don't spend my taxes on NHS diet meetings, advice etc.

You don’t need the NHS to lose weight.

You don’t need to visit your doctor to get help to lose weight.

There is a closely guarded secret to losing (not loosing) weight that appears to be known to only an increasingly small minority.

I will let you into this secret.

It requires you to eat less and/or to exercise more. Preferably both but either on its own will usually do.

It works. Guaranteed. You don’t see many fat or obese people in famine zones?

I know that eating less and exercising more is an unpopular diet but unfortunately it is the only method that actually works.



Have a nice day.

Fire_Fox

dizziblonde wrote: »

We've finally stopped bashing the NHS helping smokers stop smoking with things like nicotine replacement and stop smoking classes etc... why shouldn't this be the same? You don't want fat people using NHS resources (last time I went to the doctors was a year ago for an ear infection btw... I hardly cost the NHS a tonne), but you won't give them any support to change their ways - apart from making them social pariahs.

It's about flipping time the NHS and the like started offering constructive help to those desperate to lose weight - who are often depressed and need the way out of their depression marked out in baby steps... anyone who's been in that state of mind knows how difficult it can be to get out of the spiral and how you sometimes DO need pretty much the level of signposts saying "walk here", "get out of bed" to help you begin to make the change then why begrudge that. Sitting there complaining that people could spend the cash of one cream cake on the weekly fee just stereotypes and demonizes people and makes it even harder for them to make that initial change.

When I walked into the gym and asked to join, it was flipping hard to do. When I started going there, and had to put up with a couple of snide stick insects sniggering at the sight of me coming in - it was even harder. If I wasn't as stubborn or determined as I am (I want to lose weight in order to be able to concieve - note, I don't expect the NHS to help me while I'm the size I am - I'm not even registered with a doctor since I moved so you can't accuse me of wasting NHS resources), I would have ran away and not gone back because of how hard initial steps are. Some people aren't as strong-willed (or bolshy) as I am - they need the help to get there - or they'll continue in the cycle, with their kids perpetuating it. I'm glad the NHS is finally doing something other than shoving rumpled diet sheets at people and barking at them to "lose some weight".

I am really sorry you have had a hard time, there is no excuse for the ignorance and rudeness you have encountered. Try a different gym if you have any further problems - none of the gyms I have worked for have been like that.

There is a major difference between
1. stating that obesity (a recognised, measurable disease state) and it's associated health problems are a drain on NHS resources (a recognised, measurable amount)
2. suggesting that individuals who are overweight are wasting NHS resources.
One statement is referring to a health condition and one to individuals, one statement is using a word that evokes 'blame' the other is not.

A huge percentage of our nation's health problems are down to our lifestyle choices, too little physical activity, smoking, drink and recreational drug taking, poor diet or overeating. If you smoke you are negatively affecting your health, irrespective of whether you have a recognised illness or not. If you overeat you are negatively affecting your heath, now or in the future. If you drive to work and sit at your desk all day ... ditto.

As you have rightly pointed out it isn't as simple as that. Mental health partially dictates our physical health - those with depression are significantly more likely to smoke, to be overweight, to drink or use drugs. If you are self-medicating this needs to be addressed. A disorder of mental health makes it more likely you will have diabetes or heart disease: severe mental illness is associated with a much shorter natural life span.

Bronnie wrote: »

Around half the UK population is overweight, with 1 in 5 adults obese and the problem is forecast to worsen, with the ensuing health problems presenting a massive drain on NHS resources. There is no doubt the problem needs to be tackled. Whether targetting NHS funds to individuals in this way is the most appropriate and cost effective use of resources is another question.

vik6525

dizziblonde wrote: »

Yay another person bashing fat people. Do you shout abuse at them out of car windows in the street too? (I've had that done to me in the past and I've a friend who has had her shopping trolley contents commented on by complete strangers, despite having nothing of any controversy in there - no wonder lots of overweight people don't go out of their houses, therefore don't remain active and get trapped into an ever-increasing cycle of weight, social isolation, low self-esteem, comfort/boredom eating, increased weight)

We've finally stopped bashing the NHS helping smokers stop smoking with things like nicotine replacement and stop smoking classes etc... why shouldn't this be the same? You don't want fat people using NHS resources (last time I went to the doctors was a year ago for an ear infection btw... I hardly cost the NHS a tonne), but you won't give them any support to change their ways - apart from making them social pariahs.

And for the record - I DON'T throw cream cakes down my neck endlessly, so let's ditch that offensive stereotype please. I'm genetically predisposed to carry weight anyway, and because of the depression which haunts all the women in my family, I've got a tendency to lock myself away in the house (I border on agroaphobic) which led to me becoming increasingly physically inactive, piling on the weight, hiding away even more (especially after getting abuse hurled at me while walking back from lectures as a size 18 student) and things spiralling out of control. I also had an abusive relationship with a man who controlled every aspect of my life - including my diet and wouldn't let me choose salad and the like because he was scared of me recovering my self-esteem and leaving him like the waste of space he was. I also don't expect the NHS to bail me out, I pay myself and go to the gym 6 times a week, I eat sensibly, I'm losing weight gradually but it's MY business, not any of the self-appointed busybodies who love to judge and blame people.

I am however quite outspoken on the completely useless way in which obesity is being adressed in society - stigmatizing, demonizing and bashing people who quite often have really awful self-esteem issues bound up inexorably with their weight is not going to help them lose it. If subsidizing people to join a slimming class or a gym (my local gym does subsidized and supervised 12 week activity programmes for people - not the route I've taken to joining it though) helps to get them out and about (walking to these places also burns calories), removes their social isolation and raises their self esteem (helping with the boredom/comfort eating aspect) and educates them in better food choices/recipe choices etc as well as the direct ways to help them lose weight with the ensuing self-esteem boosts when they DO drop a bit... it's worth the cost really.

Lots of people DON'T know how to do things like cook sensible food - and the marketed "low fat/healthy option/generic slimming brand" options in supermarkets cost more - if you can't cook from scratch you don't appreciate it's do-able.... and these days lots of kids and parents are the generations who don't have a clue really. I've seen kids sent to school with a packed lunch consisting of 3 Jacob's crackers and half a chocolate easter egg - if throwing some money into adressing the parenting skills of these parents, or allowing schools to have the facilities to teach proper cooking (not just making chocolate cornflake cakes) is going to help the problem - it's an investment for long-term gain.

It's about flipping time the NHS and the like started offering constructive help to those desperate to lose weight - who are often depressed and need the way out of their depression marked out in baby steps... anyone who's been in that state of mind knows how difficult it can be to get out of the spiral and how you sometimes DO need pretty much the level of signposts saying "walk here", "get out of bed" to help you begin to make the change then why begrudge that. Sitting there complaining that people could spend the cash of one cream cake on the weekly fee just stereotypes and demonizes people and makes it even harder for them to make that initial change.

When I walked into the gym and asked to join, it was flipping hard to do. When I started going there, and had to put up with a couple of snide stick insects sniggering at the sight of me coming in - it was even harder. If I wasn't as stubborn or determined as I am (I want to lose weight in order to be able to concieve - note, I don't expect the NHS to help me while I'm the size I am - I'm not even registered with a doctor since I moved so you can't accuse me of wasting NHS resources), I would have ran away and not gone back because of how hard initial steps are. Some people aren't as strong-willed (or bolshy) as I am - they need the help to get there - or they'll continue in the cycle, with their kids perpetuating it. I'm glad the NHS is finally doing something other than shoving rumpled diet sheets at people and barking at them to "lose some weight".

Im sorry that you've had bad experiences, but your use of the words 'stick insects' really annoys me....

You're saying that people 'stigmatise' fat people, but didnt you just do exactlly the same thing to thin people?

aliasojo

Avoriaz wrote: »

Please don't spend my taxes on NHS diet meetings, advice etc.

You don’t need the NHS to lose weight.

You don’t need to visit your doctor to get help to lose weight.

There is a closely guarded secret to losing (not loosing) weight that appears to be known to only an increasingly small minority.

I will let you into this secret.

It requires you to eat less and/or to exercise more. Preferably both but either on its own will usually do.

It works. Guaranteed. You don’t see many fat or obese people in famine zones?

I know that eating less and exercising more is an unpopular diet but unfortunately it is the only method that actually works.



Have a nice day.

I can see that by the NHS spending £4.50 a week in the short term, they are hoping it will herd off the potential long term (and possibly costly)issues that overweight people may go on to develop.

However, people who are 'just' overweight (and by that I mean, are carrying extra weight but are not ill or have weight related health problems) have a choice and the ability to act on that choice. People who are ill don't.

Whilst I can see some benefit in this scheme, on balance I agree with Avoriaz in that I'd prefer NHS funds to not be used for programs such as this. If we had a thriving NHS with limitless funding, then fine we can embrace all sorts of initiatives .... but we dont have that luxury and whilst various waiting lists get longer and operations get cancelled because of staff shortages or lack of funding and certain cancer treatments are denied in certain areas because of cost....then I think it's wrong to subsidise individuals in this way.

I'm overweight, I have been for years. Sure....I'd love for someone to wave a magic wand for me but paying the £4.50 for me to attend a WW class isn't going to help my issues. I need to be determined and positive in the first place in order to help myself...if I can't make the effort to attend a class off my own bat, do you really think someone else paying the £4.50 a week is gonna make the difference? :rolleyes: If anything, it'll make me less likely to succeed as I know it's not my own money I'd be wasting if I didnt' attend a class one week.

CrazyCat

dizziblonde wrote: »

And for the record - I DON'T throw cream cakes down my neck endlessly, so let's ditch that offensive stereotype please. I'm genetically predisposed to carry weight anyway, and because of the depression which haunts all the women in my family, I've got a tendency to lock myself away in the house (I border on agroaphobic) which led to me becoming increasingly physically inactive, piling on the weight, hiding away even more (especially after getting abuse hurled at me while walking back from lectures as a size 18 student) and things spiralling out of control.

Just because you've locked yourself indoors, that shouldn't stop you from taking exercise... Instead of spending hours on the internet, turn up the radio and dance along, do your housework with gusto, or even spend an hour a day doing an aerobic workout video.

I know it's a cliche, but exercise really does help with depression, and it's surprising how quickly you can get fit just by making simple changes to your day.

Calvinandhobbs

dizziblonde wrote: »

Yay another person bashing fat people. Do you shout abuse at them out of car windows in the street too?

:huh: At the time you had posted your comment, where in this thread did anyone "bash fat people"? It was a simple, mutually polite debate?

Emmzi

how easy it is for people with no weight problems to assume it's easy to just eat less and move more. Thank you SO much for informing us of this fact. Clearly the reason people are overweight is because they are thick or lazy.

Grr. This thread has me FUMING at the ignorance and prejudice on it. You can't oversimplify this problem with sweeping generalisations. Why not let the NHS do a pilot scheme and see what happens? Then you're making judgements on fact from controlled studies - not bigoted opinion.

lesley1960

Emmzi wrote: »

how easy it is for people with no weight problems to assume it's easy to just eat less and move more. Thank you SO much for informing us of this fact. Clearly the reason people are overweight is because they are thick or lazy.

Grr. This thread has me FUMING at the ignorance and prejudice on it. You can't oversimplify this problem with sweeping generalisations. Why not let the NHS do a pilot scheme and see what happens? Then you're making judgements on fact from controlled studies - not bigoted opinion.

No one is saying its easy , but all the ones going off the deep end here seem to forget that ALL the slimming classes will basically tell you the same thing , i.e eat less , exercise more

becky_rtw

Actually most people who are overweight dont eat masses more than thin people - to become overweight you only need to consume 100-200 calories over what you're burning every day (easy enough to do of course)...and here's the problem...despite the fact it takes years to put on weight people want to lose it all instantly rather than the recommended 1lb per week by creating a small (say 500 calorie) deficit (with exercise or eating less but preferably both)...

Personally I dont think the NHS should be paying for these classes either, I think they should be catching it much earlier when people are merely a small amount overweight and show people by how even cutting out that latte a day can result in no more weight gain...and then working on exercise programs - the problem is with any free health service that it wants to treat the symptom(s) and not the cause(s) because thats cheaper. A holistic approach tailored to the individual would work so much better...

aliasojo

Emmzi wrote: »

how easy it is for people with no weight problems to assume it's easy to just eat less and move more. Thank you SO much for informing us of this fact. Clearly the reason people are overweight is because they are thick or lazy.

Grr. This thread has me FUMING at the ignorance and prejudice on it. You can't oversimplify this problem with sweeping generalisations. Why not let the NHS do a pilot scheme and see what happens? Then you're making judgements on fact from controlled studies - not bigoted opinion.

I think this is very unfair Emmzi. People do realise that losing weight isn't easy, if it were, no-one would be overweight.

However, the answer to losing weight is easy...it's the only one there is. As far as I know, there is no other (non- surgical) way to lose weight ......you do have to eat less and move more. We all know that....the problem arises when some of us cant do that for whatever reason.

There's no point in having an emotional knee jerk reaction to that.....no-one is suggesting all fat people are thick or lazy, so don't read things that haven't been written.

In fact, if you re-read the thread, I think most of us are managing to discuss the subject quite well.....whether you or dizziblonde agree with our opinions or not.