Guarantor for tenancy - advice needed pls

joolslee

Hi - my partner agreed to be guarantor for my daughter when she moved into a flat on 07 June last year. On the day of move in we had an appointment to sign contracts at the letting agents offices but, in spite of requesting sight of the documents some time previously, the tenancy agreement and deed of guarantee weren't emailed to us until the morning of the signing.
Once at the agents my partner queried the clause that obligated him to remain guarantor for as long as my daughter and landlord chose to renew the tenancy. He insisted that he would only sign for a year with the option to renew his obligation if he chose to.
Eventually the agents agreed to draw up an amendment but it couldn't be done immediately and they weren't prepared to hand over the keys to my daughter unless he signed the standard agreement in the meantime, which he did.
Unfortunately we can't find our copies of any of these documents and the agents are now saying that he is liable as guarantor if my daughter renews the tenancy. He can't commit to this because of employment uncertainties.
My daughter isn't willing to sign a new agreement without his consent, but the council won't re-house her without a Section 21 which the agents say they won't issue because she is being offered a new tenancy. If she chooses not to sign and vacates the flat she will be deemed as making herself intentionally homeless.
If she doesn't sign a new tenancy but stays in the flat beyond the expiry of the current tenancy, is my partner still liable as guarantor and if so would it be for as long as she occupies the flat or could it go beyond that? She doesn't want to do this but isn't being given much choice.
Sorry this is long-winded, thanks for reading.

Emmzi

before she signs new lease, get him to write to agency stating he formally withdraws g'tee as at *date* and any further lease entered into is at their sole discretion and he will not further g'tee it.

hopefully they then evict and she can apply for council housing *or* accept the withdrawal of g'tee

Fire_Fox

joolslee wrote: »

Hi - my partner agreed to be guarantor for my daughter when she moved into a flat on 07 June last year. On the day of move in we had an appointment to sign contracts at the letting agents offices but, in spite of requesting sight of the documents some time previously, the tenancy agreement and deed of guarantee weren't emailed to us until the morning of the signing.
Once at the agents my partner queried the clause that obligated him to remain guarantor for as long as my daughter and landlord chose to renew the tenancy. He insisted that he would only sign for a year with the option to renew his obligation if he chose to.
Eventually the agents agreed to draw up an amendment but it couldn't be done immediately and they weren't prepared to hand over the keys to my daughter unless he signed the standard agreement in the meantime, which he did.
Unfortunately we can't find our copies of any of these documents and the agents are now saying that he is liable as guarantor if my daughter renews the tenancy. He can't commit to this because of employment uncertainties.
My daughter isn't willing to sign a new agreement without his consent, but the council won't re-house her without a Section 21 which the agents say they won't issue because she is being offered a new tenancy. If she chooses not to sign and vacates the flat she will be deemed as making herself intentionally homeless.
If she doesn't sign a new tenancy but stays in the flat beyond the expiry of the current tenancy, is my partner still liable as guarantor and if so would it be for as long as she occupies the flat or could it go beyond that? She doesn't want to do this but isn't being given much choice.
Sorry this is long-winded, thanks for reading.

Why isn't she willing to sign without your partner's guarantee? Will the letting agency state in writing that they need the guarantee to commence a new tenancy?

joolslee

Thank you for replying.
Emmzi - I wrote to them early April, 2 mths before tenancy expires, and advised that he can no longer be guarantor on any new tenancy. But they are saying he is tied into it whether he likes it or not and that if my daughter signs a renewal he is legally bound to honour the guarantee. They won't renew without a guarantor, and maintain that she already has one.
Fire Fox - she won't sign because in doing so she automatically renews his guarantee. I emailed asking them to issue a Section 21 eviction order to satisfy the Housing Dept if they weren't willing to renew the tenancy without a guarantor - they just replied that they wouldn't issue an eviction because they ARE offering her a tenancy. It's her choice whether or not she signs it and if not she must vacate by 07 June.

robpitt

I can't believe any contract in which the guarantor has no means to ever (ever) end their responsibilites is fair (and it's my understanding that unfair terms are generally not enforced by courts); so if you really care you could get professional legal advice to try and confirm this.

At the very least do as Emmzi suggested and write to them (possibly recorded) making it clear that you withdraw the gaurantee at the end of the current term and that it was agreed at the start of the tenancy that you'd that right to do this (cite as many facts, witnesses, documents/emails as you can to back this up).

---

If you're ever stuck in the situation again where you agree an ammendment verbally... try and get something to back that up at the time. Maybe a note scribbled on the end of the contract OR a seperate signed note (e.g. back of envelope), anything so that its not your word vs theirs.

Emmzi

Ask the agency to provide a copy of the guarantee. You need to know if he has signed in perpetuity or for the initial period, and his rights.

however here is an intersting note from landlord zone forums

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=12954&page=3

I had a guarantor who wrote to me stating he was no longer prepared to guarantee his son's tenancy after the end of the fixed term, and took it up with his local Trading Standards Office, and his Union's solicitor. Both opined that although the guarantor agreement tied in the guarantor beyond the fixed term, as he had given reasonable notice before the fixed term ended, the most that any extension could be imposed would be any Notice period available to the landlord, i.e. two months, in that he could bring the tenancy to an end, and that a new fixed term tenancy should be drawn up with an alternative guarantor.

Remember the circumstances of a guarantor might quite likely change. What for instance would you do if the guarantor was himself declared bankrupt? The guarantee would be unenforceable. A guarantor cannot be tied into a contract indefinitely if his ability to honour it is diminished or removed, and I would say that to give fair warning of wanting to be released from it would impose on the landlord a duty to seek an alternative if a tenancy becomes periodic.

Just a thought!

zzzLazyDaisy

Your OH should write again, referring to the earlier correspondence and stating that owing to a change in his personal financial circumstances he is no longer in a position to act as g'tor for the tenancy, and accordingly he is now giving formal notice that as at [date of end of tenancy] he will no longer act as g'tor to the tenancy. Send it special (next day) delivery so you can be certain of getting a signature (unfortunately recorded delivery is often not signed for these days)

He should copy the letter to your daughter who should then write to the LL stating that she has received a copy of the letter from OH to LL (copy enclosed). While she would like to accept the offer of the renewed tenancy, she is unable to comply with the condition that she must have a g'tor. In the circumstances she asks them to consider removing this condition in order that she might continue with the tenancy. Enclose a further copy of OH's letter to LL, and send it special delivery.

If LL fails to reply, or refuses to remove g'tor condition, then daughter must refuse to sign the new tenancy because she cannot comply with the terms. But she must also refuse to move out. He will then have to serve a S21 notice which she can give to the council

HTH

EDIT - it is worth giving Shelter a ring as they give advice on all aspects of housing problems, not just immediate homelessness

The_Violet_Fairy

I was going to suggest either Shelter or Citizen's Advice.

Shelter have a brilliant website: england.shelter.org.uk
(not allowed to post "proper" links yet!)
I've checked on all sorts of rental/tenancy related stuff on here.

they also have a Shelter -Scotland version.

Hope you manage to get this sorted.

joolslee

Many thanks all - we are writing a letter this evening and will do as you suggest. My daughter received a letter today telling her that the inventory check will take place on 5th June and she must hand over the keys and vacate immediately afterwards. She's going to the council tomorrow with copies of correspondence and hopefully get their advice.

Robpitt, I totally agree that these guarantor agreements are unfair yet seem to be complying with the law. The guarantor is legally bound but has no control, choice or even a right to be consulted as to whether the contract is renewed ... its up to the tenant and landlord. Unbelievable. I've read all sorts of horror stories on other forums with some people completely unaware that they've continued as guarantor for years after the relationship with their friend or family member has broken down. Your advice around the signing of any legal agreement is noted )
Emmzi, xxxLazyDaisy and Voilet Fairy, thank you all for the advice, links, and signposts to other websites. I'm feeling a little more confident that it will work out ok in the end.

zzzLazyDaisy

Just one thing - if/when the tenancy ends, she is not obliged to move out. The landlord cannot insist on her giving the keys back, or take any steps to evice her without first giving her two months notice on a S21, and second if she still does not move out - as is her right - he must get a court order.

The reason I am saying this is that IF she agrees to move out without waiting for the court order, she will almost certainly be deemed to be intententionally homeless by the council. This seems to be a fairly standard approach by councils these days. So she does need to ask the council what their policy is on this.

joolslee

Yes thanks LazyDaisy ... initially she believed she was doing the right thing by informing the agent that she could no longer comply with the terms of the tenancy and giving them notice. The council then told her she needs the Section 21 and its been downhill ever since then because the agents are digging their heels in with a "Sign what you've been offered or vacate" response.
She was worried that if she stayed put they might change the locks while she's out but I think I've established that is illegal without the issue of the Section 21 so it looks as though we will have to force their hand unfortunately. It's not a course of action she wants to take and it just causes stress all round. Seems so unnecessary.