Are the minimum wage increases enough? 12 May 2009 at 3:13PM in Debate House Prices & the Economy 80 replies 2.1K views

Thrugelmir

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Out of interest, and this post is not meant to be antagonistic in any way, does anyone know details of any full time paying minimum rate.
If so -
a) what does the job entail
b) what part of the country are they located
c) what is the average wage rate for that area
d) what is the next step up the ladder for the jobholder (qualifications or experience).

In my experience part of the problem with low wages is that often increases in earnings affects social security benefits. Many of the lower paid are not prepared to accept more responsibility, work overtime etc when any extra pay is compensated by a reduction in state support.

Personal tax allowances should be increased to incentivise people to work.

lemonjelly

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Personal tax allowances should be increased to incentivise people to work.

Fully agree with this comment.

There are a great deal of allegedly "trainee" jobs, telesales and the like which are full time paying NMW. However the staff continue to carry out the ful role.

There are particular examples of some companies paying what they call a living wage (I believe HSBC are one) who have increased pay in certain geographic areas and for certain roles. In example, there are cleaners being paid in excess of £7 per hour. This results in greater staff loyalty, increased productivity, willingness to be a flexible employee, employees going beyond the call of duty, increased competition by applicants for vacant posts - all of which are a great benefit to the employer - think about how much they save through staff retention/not having to advertise/interview/recruit/retrain. Think of the consistency the business has.

These staff then spend this higher amount in their local communities, in the local businesses. In current times, having such a disposable income could be keeping some of these small businesses going.

It also raises the profile of the employer in the local community.

So who loses out here? Hell, with higher wages there is less dependency on tax credits etc - saving all of us money!

Old_Slaphead

lemonjelly wrote: »

So who loses out here? Hell, with higher wages there is less dependency on tax credits etc - saving all of us money!

In this case SMEs who are unable to compete with multinationals who have vast economies of scale. I suspect that there aren't many/any multinationals paying minimum wages anyway.....do you have any examples?

My customers (multinationals) expect, nay oblige me, to reduce year-on-year prices in the current climate. Given that, in your example say HSBC, can simply pass on their increased costs to me, how can I square this equation?

If paying higher wages was easy-peasy then why are so many small businesses struggling and/or going out of business

A_fiend_for_life

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

In this case SMEs who are unable to compete with multinationals who have vast economies of scale. I suspect that there aren't many/any multinationals paying minimum wages anyway.....do you have any examples?

Mostly in the fast food sector.

Old_Slaphead

A_fiend_for_life wrote: »

Mostly in the fast food sector.

Not so. Just done a quick google - the three I checked namely, Pret, Greggs and McD all pay above minimum rate. Then there's the perks - discount on bulk purchases of Clearasil.

For McD I only looked at 16-18 as I assumed anyone over 18 would be a director.

Anyway, these are mostly temp jobs. After 2 weeks anyone flipping burgers (as opposed to 2nd homes) is automatically promoted to branch manager.

Entertainer

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

Did they? Or did they aquiesce because they had to.

The bill won't get through the HoC tomorrow - but in the future who knows.

Apparently minimum wage breaches the Human Rights Act in not allowing someone to work for less than minimum wage. It will allow empoyees to opt of the minimum wage - mentions nothing about employers though.

O.k, so by that token Labour dropping their commitment to "owning the means of production and control" was a mirage and they will be implementing Marxism at some time in the near future, unannounced in any election manifesto.

Or perhaps their former commitment (supported by Tony Blair in 1983) to leave the EU also still applies and is waiting to happen at a moment's notice.

Or maybe there's a secret agenda to get rid of the monarchy and turn Britain into a republic, a policy actually supported by alot more than 12 Labour MPs (who make a very public display of their "radicalism" by crossing their fingers when they take the Oath of allegiance.)

Political parties have election manifestos which outline their policies for a parliament and which you have to take at face value. Otherwise, there would be no point in debating anything, we could all just make up what we like about our opponents.

Unsurprisingly enough, this is what happened in the 2005 General Election- alot of smears and hyperbole about what the other side were going to do designed to confuse the electorate e.g Gordon Brown claiming the Tories were going to sack "every teacher, every nurse and every doctor" and no debate about real issues such as the housing boom and the debt bubble. Look how that turned out.

baileysbattlebus

Entertainer wrote: »

The Conservatives dropped their opposition to the minimum wage ten years ago so, yes, you are.

Yes - I was wrong - sorry -I heard David Cameron today say how successful the minimum wage has been and that he fully supported it, and would continue to do so.

StevieJ

Entertainer wrote: »

Unsurprisingly enough, this is what happened in the 2005 General Election- alot of smears and hyperbole about what the other side were going to do designed to confuse the electorate e.g Gordon Brown claiming the Tories were going to sack "every teacher, every nurse and every doctor" and no debate about real issues such as the housing boom and the debt bubble. Look how that turned out.

Yes look how that turned out, but the Tories would have made it worse:eek:
Tories plan £14bn cuts to red tape

• A vast range of regulations on the financial services industry should either be abolished or watered down, including money-laundering restrictions affecting banks and building societies. Mr Redwood's group also sees "no need to continue" to regulate mortgage provision, saying it is the lender, not the client, who takes the risk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560100/Tories-plan-14bn-cuts-to-red-tape.html

louiser123

i wholeheartedly feel that in this day and age noone should have to live without enough to manage, most of the low paid nmw workers are infact the real workers, hard long hours and very little personal life, many caring for our elderley and less fortunate individuals in homes both private and public sector. it apalls me and i do know this as a fact i have seen it many times, that these places of care purchase basic cheap food often the lowest quality for thier residents, do not provide simple basic toiletries, pay minimum wages to thier staff , and moan they cannot afford to pay these wages and make a flamin fortune in proft. buying second homes abroad and top cars. i have seen it with my own eyes and its true and probably the same in many other areas of work.

if you cant afford to pay your staff a decent livable wage then you should not be in business at all!! and certainaly not when its as it is above.

mardatha

I've done office cleaning full-time on the minimum wage. And the posters above saying that these bottom-of-the-pile workers can go to night school etc and better themselves are being unrealistic. If we were all brain surgeons then who would empty the bins & clean the toilets ?? And if they hadnt increased the MW think of the outrage in the country with the MPs allowance scandal !!