Abbey Esaver account, they can't confirm our rate

JaG_2

Just an aside:

If you borrow money, the lender is obliged to tell you if the rate goes up (doesn't normally go down if they can help it.

Lend them money, and they can change the rate without telling you, must be part of the consumer credit act or something, so I can say "Barclaycard thank you for the investment, however as a policy decision, I am only going to pay you 2% for the term of the investment".

We have looked online, and there is noting on the account balance thay actually says anything other than the amount that you put in as the interest is paid at the end of the term, so without being an actaury, and all the figures, god knows what it will be.

JaG

Baldur

JaG wrote: »

That looks like it, though I will admit I didn't do it the other half did and she is more judicious than me, and actually reads things, beyond the big print.

So without being an expert, and not having the full blurb, what would anyone say, the rates are stated, and nothing says variable (or other words to the same effect), The online thing only said the rate, with the "if you make a withdrawl, then the rate varies" bit as above.

Does this mean that what they give you can be different to what they sell you ?

Remember that the link that I posted only gives a precis of the account, you would need to read through the full Terms & Conditions of the specific account in order to be able to draw any realistic conclusion about the interest - from Abbey's past performance, I would be extremely surprised if the account wasn't variable, as are most instant access savings products.

ashteadgirl

This link takes you to the interest rates of Abbey accounts no longer available on the Abbey site

http://www.abbey.com/csgs/Satellite?appID=abbey.internet.Abbeycom&canal=CABBEYCOM&cid=1210618078204&empr=Abbeycom&leng=en_GB&pagename=Abbeycom%2FPage%2FWC_ACOM_TemplateG

I think that your account was a variable rate one because I remember looking at it and deciding on the Egg account because it was 6.3% fixed for 1 year even though I am an Abbey customer. When they send out the tax certificates they usually send a leaflet giving the past years interest rates for all their accounts maybe you could try and obtain one of these. I have not received my tax certificate from them yet .

Hope you get a definitive answer somewhere

ashteadgirl

Got Summary of Savings accounts from Abbey today

If the account is an esaver direct Looks like the interest rates are as folllows

£1+ No withdrawals WITH bonus Apr 2008 6.5%, Nov 2008 6.0%, Dec 2008 4.5%, Jan 2009 3.5%, Feb 2009 3.0%, Mar 2009 2.5%

£1+ No withdrawals WITHOUT bonus Apr 2008 5.75%,
Nov 2008 5.25%, Dec 2008 3.75%, Jan 2009 2.75%, Feb 2009 2.25%, Mar 2009 1.75%

£1+ and 1+ withdrawals WITH bonus** Apr 2008 2.75%,
Nov 2008 2.25%, Dec 2008 0.75%, Jan 2009 0.1%, Feb 2009 0.1%,
Mar 2009 0.1%

£1+ and 1+ withdrawals WITHOUT bonus** Apr 2008 2.75%,
Nov 2008 2.25%, Dec 2008 0.75%, Jan 2009 0.1%, Feb 2009 0.1%,
Mar 2009 0.1%

** 1+ withdrawals rate applies in each month a withdrawal is made

Apparently the bonus is a variable rate bonus for the first 12 months after opening the account

Hope this helps

will-in-estoril

There are two issues of eSaver Direct: yours may well have been the first. This link to the Abbey website gives the latest rate.

http://www.abbey.com/csgs/ContentServer?appID=abbey.internet.Abbeycom&c=Page&canal=CABBEYCOM&cid=1210618078204&empr=Abbeycom&leng=en_GB&pagename=Abbeycom%2FPage%2FWC_ACOM_TemplateG

Just noticed link already posted! However, eSaver Direct has to be variable, given the nosedive in the rate between April 2008 and now.

You will have to decide if you want the money now to an account paying a decent rate, foregoing the 0.75% bonus.

biddleje

My 12 months bonus period expired at the end of May, and my hard-earned cash is now earning 1% gross!
I made several separate withdrawals on-line then phoned Abbey to close the account and withdraw the remaining £1. I told them about the withdrawals to ensure their Anti-Fraud measures didn't interfere. However, it turns out the withdrawals were all blocked anyway due to "irregular activity" (on an account that penalises withdrawals until after 12 months!!!) and the entire balance will be sent to me by cheque. One week later, and I'm still waiting for my cheque....
Not impressed!!!:mad:
Abbey have promised compensation for loss of interest, but nothing in writing yet.

withnell

biddleje wrote: »

Abbey have promised compensation for loss of interest, but nothing in writing yet.

Insist on speaking to a manager in branch - you may have to book an appointment. They have the power to arrange the compensation

TheKid

JaG,

I've also had an awful experience with Abbey's eSaver Direct.
My experience, which I recount below, and the fact that that there are others affected by this, leads me to strongly believe that Abbey’s 2008 eSaver Direct product was marketed, designed and operated with intent to deceive and confuse, in order to effectively defraud unsuspecting depositors.

I'm currently trying to resolve this with Abbey, but in retrospect I should have
read the warning signs, some of which you describe, and taken my money out earlier.

Here's what happened

I was sold an eSaver Direct account in April 2008 on the following basis

Introductory rate of 6.5% AER for the 1st year
Interest to be paid on an annual (rather than monthly) basis
No penalties for withdrawals

I confirmed these details at the time, with Abbey sales staff over the phone and at
my local branch. When the documentation arrived however, I like you, couldn't see
the 6.5% rate anywhere, nor the reference to penalty free withdrawals. I hence phoned Abbey again to reconfirm, and again I got the "yes sir, 6.5% introductory rate for the 1st year". Are there any penalties for making withdrawals? I asked, "no sir" was the answer.

I left it at that, as the conversations in which I had explicitly asked these questions had been recorded, and I wasn't suspicious of the terms because at the same time Lloyds TSB was offering the same rate on their 2008/09 ISA and I knew that all the banks were keen to increase their deposit base to shore up liquidity.

In August 2008, I made some withdrawals and wanted to check that the interest was accruing as expected. However, as you found yourself, the web site had no indication of interest accrual, so I phoned Abbey to ask for the amount of interest that had accrued to that date. Again, as you found yourself, no one could give me an answer. Their systems apparently couldn't calculate this until the day the interest became payable. As the eSaver Direct account was designed to pay interest only yearly, this system deficiency gives Abbey one full years’ cloak under which to hide their misrepresentations. Not easily phased however, I tried asking the question differently. What is the amount of money I would receive if I closed my account right there and then? I asked. But again if I wanted to find that out I would need to actually close the account. i.e. only by setting on a path towards an unknown destination and then arriving at that destination, would I be able to know where that path would lead.

I made an official complaint about this, representing it as extremely poor level of service, not wanting to accuse the poor chap at the end of the phone of subterfuge. However all I got back was a letter from a Senior Customer Resolution Manager effectively advising me that there was nothing they could do to let me know the interest accrued to date on my account and that my next port of call in the complaints procedure would be the Financial Ombudsman. I should have taken my money out right there and then and indeed contacted the Financial Ombudsman, but life has a way of taking your focus away from these issues and for the second time I left it at that.

During the course of these enquiries however, I did get a new piece of information. An Abbey phone operator informed me by chance that contrary to what I had been previously told, withdrawals did incur penalties. In fact, he explained how on the calendar month of any withdrawal, the rate of interest would decrease from 6.5% to 2.75%. I was angry at this new revelation, but because I wasn’t planning on making many more withdrawals, for the third time, I left it at that.

Fast forward now to April 2009. The 1st year of my eSaver Direct account has elapsed and the interest has been paid into it. The gross rate is effectively around 3.87% rather than the 6.5% I was promised. Taking into account the fact that I did make some withdrawals the non penalty gross rate comes in marginally better at 4.2% rather than the 6.5% I was sold. That’s still 35% less than what I was promised. (For the avoidance of doubt, I am taking into account the 20% tax deduction in these calculations)

What Abbey have done can be summarised in three steps below.
- Aggressive and unethically misleading marketing both in documentary and oral form
- Lack of detail in official contract terms with intent to deceive
- Design of product with an annual accrual period exploiting system deficiencies with intent to obstruct savers from discovering actual interest rate being paid into their accounts.

Clearly I am not the only one to have been bamboozled by Abbey in this way.
It is wrong and we should go after them.

excalibur

I have had an eSaver account with Abbey since November 2000.

All seemed to be OK until December 2007.

I noticed that the amount of interest credited to my account was reducing (even with deposits and without any withdrawals).

I thought that the whole account was in error, so I contacted them (I cannot remember the actual date) to ask how they calculated the interest (a formula for excel or some explanation) and what interest rate(s) had been applied. I also asked for a complete history of interest rates since the account was opened.

They sent me a list of interest rates and a covering letter, explaining that, since the account was opened in November 2000, they have supplied the interest rate history from that date. The history was from December 2003 to May 2008 (No rates for November 2000 to November 2003). Some of the dates averlapped with differing/conflicting interest rates. They also did not explain how the interest was calculated.

After numerous emails and attempts to speak to someone I received the following (via email):

Interest on an eSaver is calculated daily and is applied to the account after close of business on the 15th of the month

I sent another email and asked for the history of interest rates.

I received the following (via email):

17/12/2007 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.60 Net Interest 4.48
16/01/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.37 Net Interest 4.30
16/02/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.37 Net Interest 4.30
17/03/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.60 Net Interest 4.48
16/04/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.60 Net Interest 4.48
16/05/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.37 Net Interest 4.30
16/06/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.37 Net Interest 4.30
16/07/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.37 Net Interest 4.30
16/08/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.18 Net Interest 4.14
16/09/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.18 Net Interest 4.14
16/10/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 5.18 Net Interest 4.14
17/11/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 3.74 Net Interest 2.99 (loose bonus rate)
16/12/2008 - interest rate - Gross Interest 2.24 Net Interest 1.79
16/01/2009 - interest rate - Gross Interest 1.15 Net Interest 0.92
16/02/2009 - interest rate - Gross Interest 0.56 Net Interest 0.45
16/03/2009 - interest rate - Gross Interest 0.25 Net Interest 0.20
16/04/2009 - interest rate - Gross Interest 0.10 Net Interest 0.08
16/05/2009 - interest rate - Gross Interest 0.10 Net Interest 0.08
16/06/2009 - interest rate - Gross Interest 0.10 Net Interest 0.08

The interest rate of the eSaver is now lower than a normal instant saver account. I thought the point of the eSaver account was that it can offer a higher rate, as it is maintained over the internet and does not require the same resources as normal accounts.

I sent another email explaining that I required the COMPLETE interest rate history of the account, and not from the dates that they had supplied (I assumed that they only supplied from Decmber 2007 as I had sent them the breakdown of the account, showing the reduction of the interest, from that date)

This was their reply (via email):

This information is quite extensive and I am unable to put it all into an email. This information can be requested in writing. If you could send your request to:

Abbey National Plc
PO Box 1109
Bradford
BD1 5XS

I have not yet sent a request to them as they do not seem to know what they are doing.


What I would like to ask is:

1. Is there a site that holds histories of interest rates of any banks/building societies/financial institutions.
2. Should we had not been informed of any reduction on the interest rates.
3. Would it be worth complaining to the FSA or any other authority about this.

Regards

E

simon_templar_2

Interest rates are advertised in branch on a big board usually near the entrance as well as in branch interest rate leaflets freely available. They also publish rates on their website. However Abbey has confused staff and customers on various accounts with ambiguous wordings on sale literature. The confusion is that the leaflets stated such and such rate for 12 months but on a variable account. The intranet bookstore has the rates but again is confusing and contradictory.