BTLs, are you planning to sell?

lostinrates

Thrugelmir wrote: »

So if you held say shares in a Company whose share price was falling. Would you hang onto them on the basis that they would possibly recover and rise in the future?

A good investor knows when to cut their losses ( as well as knowing when to cash in their gains).

Depends on the company/shares!

I'm not interested in BTL for myself, I think its probably quite boring and a tie if done well, but it seems tht housing, for all my pessimistic feelings about the housing market, does have some return, and is in a low. I have no idea whether it will reach the bubble peak prices (or their equivalent) again, but I do think there will come a time prices will rise relatively and that would be where I would consider selling in the bizarre, parallel universe scenario in which I found myself investing in property in that way.

dgl1001

themanbearpig wrote: »

a ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to investors from money paid by subsequent investors rather than from any actual profit earned.

The housing market is a ponzi scheme. Capital gains were made without doing anything to the property, and any profits were made by subsequent "investors".
This investment vehicle was peddled and ramped by our government, and therefore could never be known as fraudulent.

have you lost the plot?????????????

macaque_2

The original post was a serious comment on the state of the BTL market. To make any rational business judgement, some assessment of future earnings growth/decline and capital growth/decline is essential. To do this, one has to take account of the economy, jobs, debt, tax, world economic outlook, UK competitiveness etc. Right now the beach is littered with red flags.

Despite this, we have a posse of BTL zombies hoving into view their 'I'm in it for the long term' business plans. They strike angry postures and pat each other on the back for mindless but strident riposts. Some of the responses are great.

How about this one from Purch:
"Bought mine in 1991 & 1992 and I'm keeping em' 2 of them give me a yield of almost 60% on my initial investment !!!"
Providing old Purch can divide the current income by the original purchase price and get a number that pleases him, he doesn't mind how much money he loses.

Here's a gem from Dithering Dad:
"If anything, your post is convincing me to look into BTL as an investment vehicle to compliment my current investment portfolio."
Having been shown the worst set fundamentals for property since the great plague, he is motivated to rush out and buy.

Bandraoi joins the Dithering Dad camp:
"Now is the time to get into buy to let, not the time to get out of it."
I can't help wondering whether Bandraoi is covered with scars from running with scissors.

Lostinrates is not to be left out
"IMO you'd only sell BTL investments if you really were forced at this point...surely?"
If you had 800 lbs of horse meat in the fridge and the compressor blew up, would you sell the meat the neighbours or wait for the kitchen to start smelling before giving them a call?

The BTLs' perception of risk leaves me quite baffled. To put it another way, if I was the owner of a safari park, I would insist on padlocking their cars from the outside before I would let them drive through the lion enclosure.

Dithering_Dad

macaque wrote: »

Here's a gem from Dithering Dad:
"If anything, your post is convincing me to look into BTL as an investment vehicle to compliment my current investment portfolio."
Having been shown the worst set fundamentals for property since the great plague, he is motivated to rush out and buy.

I'll answer for me in the form of a question...

Macaque, do you think it's better to make investments when ordinary people think it's not a good idea and stay away, or when ordinary people think it's a great idea and rush to join the bandwagon?

Have you ever heard of the phrase "buy low, sell high"?

JonnyBravo

macaque wrote: »

The original post was a serious comment on the state of the BTL market. To make any rational business judgement, some assessment of future earnings growth/decline and capital growth/decline is essential. To do this, one has to take account of the economy, jobs, debt, tax, world economic outlook, UK competitiveness etc. Right now the beach is littered with red flags.

Despite this, we have a posse of BTL zombies hoving into view their 'I'm in it for the long term' business plans. They strike angry postures and pat each other on the back for mindless but strident riposts. Some of the responses are great.

JonnyBravo wrote: »

Granted there will be a lot more pain for some BTLers.
Equally there will be lots more who benefit from the low mortgage rates and low prices if they bought at a sensible time.

I hardly think that blanket advice of "get out while you can" is wise.
But then perhaps blanket predictions of 70% drops in house prices aren't wise either?

I'll stick with my one BTL house thanks. It's done great for me so far and I see no reason to change my strategy now.

Thanks for looking out for us all though, it's appreciated.

My repy to your original post was a serious comment on the state of your advice. To make any rational business judgement, some assessment of future earnings growth/decline and capital growth/decline is essential. To do this, one has to take account of the economy, jobs, debt, tax, world economic outlook, UK competitiveness etc both in the short term and the long term and then base decisions on individual circumstances not blanket trends, data, or soundbites. Right now this forum is littered with information for people to make informed decisions.

Despite this, we have a posse of BTL naysaying zombies hoving into view with their 'BTL is doomed I tell ya.... ALL of it'. They strike angry postures and pat each other on the back for mindless but strident rants. Very little of it is great.

Thanks for your concern again though. :cool:

Gorgeous_George

BTLs, are you planning to sell?

No, never.

If I had to reduce the rent by 75%, I'd still be happy with the income compared to original price paid. But I don't. Rents are still rising in some places though I do not doubt that they may be falling in others.

My plan is for the BTL to provide the equivalent of a week's pay (per month) for when I retire. Pensions will pay another couple of weeks (all being well). Being mortgage free should negate the need for the final week's pay.

Just need to live long enough to see the plan mature.

GG

macaque_2

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

I'll answer for me in the form of a question...

Macaque, do you think it's better to make investments when ordinary people think it's not a good idea and stay away, or when ordinary people think it's a great idea and rush to join the bandwagon?

Have you ever heard of the phrase "buy low, sell high"?

Quite right but who decides what is low or high? In the late 80s, the Nikkei 225 index hit 38,000. Today it reached a 4 month high of 8,977!

chucky

macaque wrote: »

Quite right but who decides what is low or high? In the late 80s, the Nikkei 225 index hit 38,000. Today it reached a 4 month high of 8,977!

constituents of the Nikkie 225 would have changed over 20 years - not the best comparison.

it's like comparing a 3 bedroom house in Wigan and then comparing it to a 3 bedroom house in Hampstead 20 years later.

not your best response macaque

JayScottGreenspan

macaque wrote: »

The BTLs' perception of risk leaves me quite baffled. To put it another way, if I was the owner of a safari park, I would insist on padlocking their cars from the outside before I would let them drive through the lion enclosure.

Quality. :rotfl:

Dithering_Dad

macaque wrote: »

Quite right but who decides what is low or high? In the late 80s, the Nikkei 225 index hit 38,000. Today it reached a 4 month high of 8,977!

You decide what is low and high based on your own calculations. It's your money after all, so you decide whether to invest or not. All I can say is that I'd rather invest when an index is at 8977 than at 38,000. Wouldn't you?

There are a world of different investment vehicles out there. You seem to be risk adverse (nothing wrong with that), so equities and properrty may not be suitable for you, but they are suitable for others. If you feel BTL is too risky, then try bonds (fixed interest or index linked), managed funds or even cash ISAs.