complicated tenant situation, please help!

getootofmyhooooose

hello guys,

Im writing on behalf of my mother, who has let her property out without a contract. This is not best practive obviously and predictably she is now in a bit of a situation with the so called tenant.

In short this woman has been living in the property for 3 months, she paid no deposit and only one months rent, and has now gone two months rent free, despite my mums asking for the rent, she has come up with several excuses but my mum will no longer let them wash and wants her money, and if she doesnt get it is prepared to give the woman 30 days to vacate the property, i was wondering where she stood from a legal stand point as this is quite complicated...

technically i am a tenant as the house is in my grandmothers name yet my mum pays the mortgage via buy to let, as i am legally a tenant could i effectively re-take posession?

or should we take it down a formal route?

theartfullodger

I'm confused:

Is the house (owned by Grandma) where you are a tenant the same one the woman is in?

If so does she share a bathroom & kitchen?? If so she is a "Lodger" and can be told to go, I suggest a letter signed by as many people involved as possible (Grannie.mum & you) giving her notice. After the 5 days when she is out change the locks: Keep her belongings safe & give them to her when she asks. (Getting rent back is a different problem: Theft of her belongings will get you involved with the Police).

If however she has her "own" property she is renting (another house or self-contained) then I think, assuming England & Wales, she has a 6 months AST tenancy by default and you cannot take legal action to evict until 6 months. And beware being seen as harrasing her: If she is harrassed the court may decide to let her stay!

Suggest if this is the case you involve...
http://www.landlordaction.co.uk/

I presume you are paying market rate rent to Grannie & she is declaring the income to the tax man /HMRC?? As in these circumstances tax man may be told what is happening (by someone agreived) and decide to tax grannie on what the rent should be.

That mum is paying the mortgage does not change who owns the house & is therefore technically the Landlord..

Cheers!

Lodger

N79

theartfullodger wrote: »

If however she has her "own" property she is renting (another house or self-contained) then I think, assuming England & Wales, she has a 6 months AST tenancy by default and you cannot take legal action to evict until 6 months. And beware being seen as harrasing her: If she is harrassed the court may decide to let her stay!

Yes you can take action to evict on any of the grounds listed in Schedule 2 of the housing act (eg non payment of rent) within the first 6 months (or whatever the fixed period length is). This is the S8 route. You just can not use the non fault based S21 route.

mlz1413

I read this as you are a tenant in an entirely different house but related to the LL (ie your mother) of a house with a problem tenant - if so no you have no rights at all to become a tenant within the house of the problem tenant.

If the problem tenant has no contract, no rent book and no inventory or documents to support a reason to be in this house then your mum can move in and invite round who she likes to party in her own house - you mum is named on the deeds as the owner isn't she?

If the problem tenant has evidence of being rented to like a receipt for rent given, then a contract is implied and I would seek professional advise.

N79

mlz1413 wrote: »

I read this as you are a tenant in an entirely different house but related to the LL (ie your mother) of a house with a problem tenant - if so no you have no rights at all to become a tenant within the house of the problem tenant.

If the problem tenant has no contract, no rent book and no inventory or documents to support a reason to be in this house then your mum can move in and invite round who she likes to party in her own house - you mum is named on the deeds as the owner isn't she?

If the problem tenant has evidence of being rented to like a receipt for rent given, then a contract is implied and I would seek professional advise.

T has paid rent (see post 1). If LL is not resident then T has a tenancy agreement. Whether a receipt has been issued for the rent is irrelevent. If our assumptions about the resident status of the LL are correct then the action you propose would lead to the LL being sued for illegal eviction.

mlz1413

If tenant has no evidence of paying rent then how can they sue for illegal evicition? So far all the T can prove is they did not break in.

getootofmyhooooose

Hi sorry for the confusion.

the house by contract is effectively being let to myself, but my gran is the legal owner, so me and my gran have a contract...however the agreement is despite the legalities my mum owns the home and therefore is subletting as i am at university.

the woman who currently lives in the house has paid one months rent so i guess that would make her a tenant and an implied shorthold agreement would exist, however there is no documentation to that effect.

as my gran is the legal owner, and i am legally a tennant, does it mean that i can come and go as i please? she has no contrac t and has not paid rent for 2 months, i would assume even under a shorthold tenancy agreement this is grounds for eviction? if so what would the process be.

we would like her gone without much aggrevation as she is a bad tennant, the complications lie with how it is all implied as it is effectively sublet to her, yet i am in the eyes of the law the legal occupier due to there being a contract in place, and yes you can assume that the market rent is being paid, all of that is above board, my mum just controls the house however it is in my grans name.

silvercar

Sounds like your mum is acting as letting agent for your gran.

You have a rental tenancy contract with your gran and I assume your mum lives elsewhere.

In your absence your mum (as letting agent for your gran) has decided to get another tenant. Is this with your agreement and your stuff moved out? or as a co-tenant with you or as a lodger of yours (ie the new tenant is expecting to share facilities with you when you are home form uni)?

getootofmyhooooose

I have moved out and it is with my agreement, so in essence i suppose my mum is acting as a letting agent. I did not plan to go home from where i now live but i would if it helped ease the current tenant problem.

pinkshoes

So you are the tenant, you've moved out for a bit (with the intention to come back???) and in the mean time, the house has been let to someone else?

In theory you might have to give the legal 2 months notice (from next rent date) by issuing an S21, then if she doesn't move out, it's court action followed by bailifs.

Being sneaky (this is not advised!!), I suppose as the tenant you could move back in to one of the bedrooms, and have this woman as your lodger, handing her a lodger's contract, then give her a week's notice if she doesn't pay rent. This isn't particularly good practice though...

As no deposit was paid, there will be no trouble over the deposit scheme at least!

mlz1413

getootofmyhooooose wrote: »

Hi sorry for the confusion.

the house by contract is effectively being let to myself, but my gran is the legal owner, so me and my gran have a contract...however the agreement is despite the legalities my mum owns the home and therefore is subletting as i am at university..

I have put in bold the bits I still don't understand about ownership, but more importantly what is the tenant renting?

Is the rented area a bedroom with shared use of the kitchen, bathroom, lounge that the owner also lives in.

OR a self contained flat within a house?

OR something different?

Broadly speaking it sounds like a house with 3 or more bedrooms that your mum lives in, you have a room within that is not used currently as you are at uni and a another room that a 'tenant' rents - if so this person is a lodger and not a tenant. Lodgers do not have the same rights and basically can be asked to leave at anytime.