D.i.v.o.r.c.e.

mr_nice_guy_4

Hi,
Newbie, so be gentle if I have incorrectly posted in the wrong place!

I am going through a separation at the moment, which will lead to divorce no question. I have a new partner living in my old shared house with me - that's the complication.

STBX's father gave her £50,000 to invest when we married, she decided to put it into a deposit for a house, and pay off debts which were in my name (about £20,000). I signed nothing at any point, other than the mortgage offer.

A little while later we re-mortgaged to pay off some home improvement stuff, a car and credit cards. Again, I signed the mortgage offer.

When we initially split we agreed that I would pay her £20,000 (either a lump sum, or at £400 per month for the duration) - plus £5,000 on the eventual sale of the house when the deeds were transferred. This was agreed.

Oh, by the way, the house is now in negative equity (to the tune of around £5,000 to £10,000). OK, with me so far? Now she want's securities on the "loan" of £20,000 - obviously I don't have any to cover it - she has also gone back on a couple of other verbal agreements, which makes me think the whole deal stinks!

Oh, something else, since she left the house in December, I have been paying for everything, mortgage, bills etc...etc... I am cool with this (or have been up to now) as the eventual goal was me retaining the property. She has paid nothing to the mortgage and has been stalling in my mind ever since, again I was OK as long as she held her end of the verbal agreement up.

I'm now on the verge of following my solicitors advice. From her perspective I owe nothing. Nothing was signed for (other then the mortgage), we have no substantial assets other than the house, my solicitor thinks I am being overly generous - if the court decided the outcome she believes it is unlikely STBX would recieve much at all, if anything.

So, does anyone know if I can force her off of the mortgage through non-payment? Should I stop paying the mortgage and let the mortgage company persue her for her half and sell the property?

I know this is a ramble-on post, but I am getting concerned and could do with some real-world experiences of others, I can't be the only one?

Cheers:beer:

silvercar

So you are living with the new partner in the house that your ex's father paid a large deposit for and reckon that "from her perspective you owe nothing".

Hmm hardly, mr nice guy!

silvercar

Oh, something else, since she left the house in December, I have been paying for everything, mortgage, bills etc...etc... I am cool with this (or have been up to now) as the eventual goal was me retaining the property.

The legal wranglings, if you all wasted money on solicitors and courts, would be that you are renting her half of the house from her and she should be paying half the mortgage. So calculate half the market rent for the property and then take off half the mortgage payment and see who owes who.

As you are living in the house and your ex isn't, you have the costs of the utilities etc.

As to the split of the house now, with neg equity and the costs of the sale (estae agent etc) there could be 10-15k to find to clear the mortgage. That would be say 7k each, but her father put in 50k to the pot, so morally you could say that you should pay her 25-7k=18k.

Obviously you haven't got that money now (unless the new GF is rich and thinks your a good investment!), so you could offer to pay her £500 a month for the next 3 years.

Legally there is no equity in the property, so there is no obligation to pay her anything. Clearly you ran up debts before you were with her, together you released equity to fund a lifestyle and that has now disappeared, so there is no money to give her and no assets. You now probably need to lve a lifestyle within your income.

So, does anyone know if I can force her off of the mortgage through non-payment? Should I stop paying the mortgage and let the mortgage company persue her for her half and sell the property?

You cannot force her off the mortgage and deeds, you can persuade her to agree (money talks). Stopping paying the mortgage would mean that the lender chases both of you (it is a joint liability) for all the money. It would also damage your credit rating and effect your ability to get a mortgage.

If you wanted to remove her from the deeds and the mortgage, the lender would want to be satisfied that you could afford the mortgage on your own. If not, would your new partner want to become a joint owner, if she has an income and good credit rating?

mr_nice_guy_4

Yeah - I guess you could look at it that way. except I am offering to pay her £25,000 to get a house with a £5 to £10k negative equity. Worst case scenario, that leaves me with a £35,000 debt! She leaves with no debt!

If we sell the house - well I guess we would both be left with nothing at all, oh, except the £10k negative equity, £5k sale fee, all on top of the cost of divorce - oh yeah, that seems like a much better idea!

Oh, something else I forgot to mention. I was willing to leave the house with absolutely nothing if she could finance it. I had another (rental) property lined up, and until the last minute that was my plan. She then piped up that the potential deal she wanted to do (with another member of her family) fell through. It was only after this that I suggested a better way out would be for me to take the house over, rather than both of us getting stung with negative equity.

I am trying to keep things level for my son, who is a year away from taking his exams at school - staying in the same house seemed like a good idea, well back then it did!

So, I guess I'm no saint, doing my best in a difficult situation is the best I can do!

silvercar

Having a child together changes things slightly.

If there was equity and if your son lived (mainly) with your ex, then she would normally be entitled to a greater share of any equity, as she needs to provide a home for her son.

Also, saying she didn't pay towards the mortgage is a weaker statement if she was a stay-at-home mum caring for your (joint) child as opposed to someone sitting around painting her nails all day. Presumely it was a joint decision that she not work for a while.

Before you try and persuade her to give up the house, if that is what you want, a quick call to the lender to see if they will let you take on the mortgage is in order.

Better to have the options available before you negotiate.

mr_nice_guy_4

silvercar wrote: »

The legal wranglings, if you all wasted money on solicitors and courts, would be that you are renting her half of the house from her and she should be paying half the mortgage. So calculate half the market rent for the property and then take off half the mortgage payment and see who owes who.

OK, works out she owes me about £100 per month.

silvercar wrote: »

As you are living in the house and your ex isn't, you have the costs of the utilities etc.

No issue with that, would not expect her to pay a penny, and have never asked.

silvercar wrote: »

As to the split of the house now, with neg equity and the costs of the sale (estae agent etc) there could be 10-15k to find to clear the mortgage. That would be say 7k each, but her father put in 50k to the pot, so morally you could say that you should pay her 25-7k=18k.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Until you take into account the money I have invested into the house/Expenses. £2,500 last year for guttering for example - I paid this on my own from my own funds. Is this not something that would be taken into consideration here? I have been earning in excess of her salary for quite a while - although we always contributed equally to household expenses - my former business dividends paid for the rest. Oh yes, including a £5,000 fund which is going to be paying for both our divorces (yeah, right - at this rate it's not going to cover half!!).

silvercar wrote: »

Obviously you haven't got that money now (unless the new GF is rich and thinks your a good investment!), so you could offer to pay her £500 a month for the next 3 years.

That's what I put on the table. £400 a month for 4 years and 2 months. Originally this was agreed, now she wants "securites" - which I simply don't have. How can I offer security on a negative equity house!!??

silvercar wrote: »

Legally there is no equity in the property, so there is no obligation to pay her anything. Clearly you ran up debts before you were with her, together you released equity to fund a lifestyle and that has now disappeared, so there is no money to give her and no assets. You now probably need to lve a lifestyle within your income.

I ran up debts yes, for me only, no. They were in my name, but I can assure you I have nothing of any great value stashed away - generally speaking it was debt run up by the two of us while we carried out various pojects. Camper van restoration/boat purchases etc..etc... all of which she wanted to be involved with and enjoyed at the time. So, again, legally yes, morally - questionable!

silvercar wrote: »

You cannot force her off the mortgage and deeds, you can persuade her to agree (money talks). Stopping paying the mortgage would mean that the lender chases both of you (it is a joint liability) for all the money. It would also damage your credit rating and effect your ability to get a mortgage.

Yes, I thought so too! Obviously, money talks to some, whispers to others.

silvercar wrote: »

If you wanted to remove her from the deeds and the mortgage, the lender would want to be satisfied that you could afford the mortgage on your own. If not, would your new partner want to become a joint owner, if she has an income and good credit rating?

Mortgage already sorted out, she just needs to agree, sign the deeds over and we can begin - this is what is so frustrating!!!!!:mad:

mr_nice_guy_4

silvercar wrote: »

Having a child together changes things slightly.

Son from previous marriage (I sound like a right catch don't I ! :rotfl:) - we have been together for 10 years nearly - I am caring for my son.

So, child not "together" as such, we lived as a family for quite some time though.

Hillfly

What is her repsonse to you saying you have nothing to secure the loan against? Surely she must understand that?
Have you made it clear that by holding on to her side of the house she is in effect holding onto 'debt' in the form of negative equity?

Could you borrow some/all of the money you have propsed to pay her? An initial lump sum would reduce the risk for her that you wont pay?

mr_nice_guy_4

Hillfly wrote: »

What is her repsonse to you saying you have nothing to secure the loan against? Surely she must understand that?
Have you made it clear that by holding on to her side of the house she is in effect holding onto 'debt' in the form of negative equity?

I laid things out this morning. It's the calmest I've been while dealing with this situation. I just said, "I have nothing, there is no security." She seemed to get where I was coming from, I hope.
I know it's tough but logic has to kick in at some point. I am getting to the point of thinking to myself "Do I want the debt"? The answer is of course, NO - but it will unsettle both my son and my new partners son, so I have to do my very best to keep this place going.
Not to mention that I have done extensive remodelling of the house - new bathrooms, decoration absolutely loads, all with my own hand - that is hard to give up. But I HAVE reached the point where if the deal my solicitor has put together falls through, I am going to quit - I have to for my sanity!!

Hillfly wrote: »

Could you borrow some/all of the money you have propsed to pay her? An initial lump sum would reduce the risk for her that you wont pay?

Believe me, I have tried. I am at the point where dirty lenders are e-mailing me. I am not going down that road for no one! My lender has refused to lend on the basis that they want to see how I am going to handle the mortgage on my own. I have reasoned with them that I have been doing this since Mid-December (I have gone overdrawn once since then!), but they won't budge.
So, I am now at the crossroads - if she accepts the proposal of unsecured repayments, all is good - life can go on. If she does not, then I am looking for somewhere else to live!
I really am past the point of worry - the last 5 months is being brought into a point - if I have to go, we go.:eek:

silvercar

You could just carry on living in the house and paying for it all. All you will lose is that you won't get her name off the deeds, but so what? there is no equity in it anyway. In the mean time, you save the £400 a month until she decides she does want her name off the deeds - by which time you could have put aside a few £400's to offer as a lump sum.

If prices fall a bit more, her bargaining power is reduced as her share of the negative equity rises.

mr_nice_guy_4

silvercar wrote: »

You could just carry on living in the house and paying for it all. All you will lose is that you won't get her name off the deeds, but so what? there is no equity in it anyway. In the mean time, you save the £400 a month until she decides she does want her name off the deeds - by which time you could have put aside a few £400's to offer as a lump sum.

If prices fall a bit more, her bargaining power is reduced as her share of the negative equity rises.

That's true.
However when (and IF) we do come out of this downturn she will benefit from me paying the mortgage (reducing the amount borrowed) and may then decide that the time is right to make me sell the property - that would really make me unhappy, to put it mildly.

No, I have given an ultimatum that if things are not settled by the end of the month (we came to the original decision in January!) then the house goes - come what may!