Jobs going abroad

Generali

Just trying to find out what people think about things like Toshiba or M&S sending their production overseas really.

We all like being able to buy a big LCD TV for a few hundred quid or a pair of jeans for a tenner or even less.

What happens when your job goes overseas?

PS lots of jobs in my industry, banking, have gone abroad (India, Ireland and Liverpool mostly)

baileysbattlebus

I haven't voted in the poll.

But I have worked for 2 companies who put part or all of their manufacturing overseas.

So this is my experience - the first company was Mars - i worked in their electronics division - and part of manufacturing was sent to Mexico. IMO it was a false economy. They had to be managed from the UK, it was difficult to manage inventory etc from here. The quality of the product went down hill and usually had to be reworked on receipt in the UK. They were never able to resolve issues themselves. It was a pain in the backside. What was saved in manufacturing costs was made up for by people having to support them from here.

The 2nd was Panasonic mobile phones - they moved the whole of manufacturing from Thatcham to the Czech Republic - was I angry - yes. Angry that we had to train and support Czech people to do the work that was carried out in the UK. Design and R & D is still in the UK.

I could understand it, the same as I did with Mars. It's all about making money. Maximum return for minimum outlay.

The trouble for a lot companies who moved manufacturing overseas is the countries they have moved to will become more expensive and eventually they will be looking for somewhere else that will manufacture more cheaply. Infact it has already happened - some countries that were cheap 20 years ago are no longer cheap.


Years ago I used buy from M&S regularly, now I rarely do, I put them on a level just above Primark for quality for most of their clothes. Not the Autograph range, but the regular stuff.

And overseas call centres are particular bugbear for me. My experience is that you normally have someone called "Tracy" or "Steve" who is reading from a script that can't be deviated from, especially if it is technical. So you can't explain your problem properly - and often can't get a prompt resolution. I find them very frustrating to deal with.

If my bank or insurance company moved their call centre overseas I would move my bank or insurance company.

adr0ck

gen you seem to have forgotton that as well as lots of jobs going abroad

so have you!!!!!!!!!!!!

bendix

I don't want to be pedantic, but of the four companies named in this thread (Mars, Toshiba, Panasonic and M&S), only one of those is British.

In that regards, the jobs that are being moved 'abroad' are already abroad, even when they are in the UK. I wonder how the American and Japanese workers who lost out by having these manufacturing plants located in the cheaper UK feel about the irony of British workers now complaining that the jobs are going to even cheaper markets.

Me? I have no problem with globalisation, and I my experiences of overseas call centres are infinitely better than those located at home for obvious reasons - who would you rather deal with - motivated, university educated Indian or Philippinos being polite because they know their family's livelihood depends upon it, or a bored and disengaged fat Georgie woman, putting you on hold while she finishes her KFC lunch and gossips about her boyfriend Wayne to her mates?

seadee

bendix wrote: »

I don't want to be pedantic, but of the four companies named in this thread (Mars, Toshiba, Panasonic and M&S), only one of those is British.

In that regards, the jobs that are being moved 'abroad' are already abroad, even when they are in the UK. I wonder how the American and Japanese workers who lost out by having these manufacturing plants located in the cheaper UK feel about the irony of British workers now complaining that the jobs are going to even cheaper markets.

Me? I have no problem with globalisation, and I my experiences of overseas call centres are infinitely better than those located at home for obvious reasons - who would you rather deal with - motivated, university educated Indian or Philippinos being polite because they know their family's livelihood depends upon it, or a bored and disengaged fat Georgie woman, putting you on hold while she finishes her KFC lunch and gossips about her boyfriend Wayne to her mates?

Not that you are dealing in stereotypes here or anything

What is a "fat Georgie woman" anyway?

bendix

Well,actually, i thought I was dealing in stereotypes . . .

A fat Georgie woman is a fat woman from Newcastle who can't spell.

StevieJ

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

And overseas call centres are particular bugbear for me. My experience is that you normally have someone called "Tracy" or "Steve" who is reading from a script that can't be deviated from, especially if it is technical. So you can't explain your problem properly - and often can't get a prompt resolution. I find them very frustrating to deal with.

If my bank or insurance company moved their call centre overseas I would move my bank or insurance company.

Hey, less of the Steve that should be Sharon If they have those names in India and Poland.

seadee

bendix wrote: »

Well,actually, i thought I was dealing in stereotypes . . .

A fat Georgie woman is a fat woman from Newcastle who can't spell.

Apologies - irony doesn't seem to work on the internet, even with a smiley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEtSwEBo8yw&feature=PlayList&p=86DEDAB26018A912&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=18

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

- motivated, university educated Indian or Philippinos being polite because they know their family's livelihood depends upon it, or a bored and disengaged fat Georgie woman, putting you on hold while she finishes her KFC lunch and gossips about her boyfriend Wayne to her mates?

One that I can understand and understands me, oh I don't wish a discussion of my local weather, either.

baileysbattlebus

bendix wrote: »

I don't want to be pedantic, but of the four companies named in this thread (Mars, Toshiba, Panasonic and M&S), only one of those is British.

In that regards, the jobs that are being moved 'abroad' are already abroad, even when they are in the UK. I wonder how the American and Japanese workers who lost out by having these manufacturing plants located in the cheaper UK feel about the irony of British workers now complaining that the jobs are going to even cheaper markets.

Me? I have no problem with globalisation, and I my experiences of overseas call centres are infinitely better than those located at home for obvious reasons - who would you rather deal with - motivated, university educated Indian or Philippinos being polite because they know their family's livelihood depends upon it, or a bored and disengaged fat Georgie woman, putting you on hold while she finishes her KFC lunch and gossips about her boyfriend Wayne to her mates?

I take your point about 3 of the 4 companies being foreign.

In the case of Mars - Mars UK manufactured for Europe and the rest of the world - Mars US manufactured for the US. They already had factories in other divisions throughout the world - I was only commenting on moving part of the manufacturing I was involved in to Mexico - most of the manufacturing done elsewhere in world by them had never been manufactured in the US to start with. Jobs had never been moved from the US to the UK. The UK confectionary side was started by Forrest Mars in 1932. From scratch with a new product and a new factory.

Panasonic was similar - the mobile phones had never been manufactured in Japan - the UK was set up service the UK and Europe. No jobs were lost in Japan. They never existed there in the first place. It would have been quite difficult for them to recruit a workforce in Japan with the level of technical English required - especially written - it was probably far more economic to open a factory over here.

Toshiba I can't comment on - I have no experience of working for them.

Part of the problem in the Uk is that companies can close down plants when they like and for what ever reason, in a lot Europe it is much more difficult to close down manufacturing plants and relocate them.

In Germany a company has to socially justify the proposal ahead of it becoming a decision. Which is very costly.

Here they just pack up and go - often having received millions in grants and subsidies which they usually never have to pay a penny back.

ScoobyStew

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I take your point about 3 of the 4 companies being foreign.

In the case of Mars - Mars UK manufactured for Europe and the rest of the world - Mars US manufactured for the US. They already had factories in other divisions throughout the world - I was only commenting on moving part of the manufacturing I was involved in to Mexico - most of the manufacturing done elsewhere in world by them had never been manufactured in the US to start with. Jobs had never been moved from the US to the UK. The UK confectionary side was started by Forrest Mars in 1932. From scratch with a new product and a new factory.

Panasonic was similar - the mobile phones had never been manufactured in Japan - the UK was set up service the UK and Europe. No jobs were lost in Japan. They never existed there in the first place. It would have been quite difficult for them to recruit a workforce in Japan with the level of technical English required - especially written - it was probably far more economic to open a factory over here.

Toshiba I can't comment on - I have no experience of working for them.

Part of the problem in the Uk is that companies can close down plants when they like and for what ever reason, in a lot Europe it is much more difficult to close down manufacturing plants and relocate them.

In Germany a company has to socially justify the proposal ahead of it becoming a decision. Which is very costly.

Here they just pack up and go - often having received millions in grants and subsidies which they usually never have to pay a penny back.

Can't forget that alot of these companies are not British in the first place, its up to our government to keep these businesses interested and make it worthwhile for them to stay here and keep our jobs.