Are smaller class sizes better?? worrying over primary school decision

dizziblonde

I've taught in both types of schools and I personally prefer smaller village schools - even if it means mixed year groups (which aren't actually that much of a big deal where the kids are concerned anyhow). When I've taught mixed years I've found that the kids actually seem to progress more as there's the potential for challenging them (I used to have reception nicking in and answering questions I'd targetted at year 1) and the older children really really want to show what they can do to the younger ones.

The best school I taught in in terms of a family feel was a one that had 64 children, three classes and the older kids really did look out for the younger ones in a way you don't get in bigger schools - you also can give the kids much more time as there's a smaller class. Having only 8 year whatever kids in the school isn't the barrier you'd think as the kids don't sit there and think "oh I can only be friends with those in my year group" - they all rattle round together with everyone in the class and the school - it also means that the teachers can know the names of ALL the kids in the school when it comes to things like playground duty and the like and look after the new pupils a lot better. I find these huge 3 form entry primaries horrible to work in in terms of knowing the children and how impersonal they are - but that's my 2p on it from a teacher viewpoint.

The only clouds on the horizon really are those of facilities (I know from going to meetings in the rural parts of Derbyshire that lots of small schools struggle with things like PE because they lack a proper school hall - so we were out on the playground doing PE in most weathers!) and the potential security of the school if it's small and in an urban area in case the council decide to merge it to reduce vacant school places.

Lunar_Eclipse

I would say smaller class sizes are generally much better, but from what you say the class sizes are the same (both 30) but with a wider age span across the children at the village school. In which case I would be really keen to know how they group the children for lessons before considering it as an option. It could be particularly beneficial for bright children and socially confident kids who prefer friends beyond their immediate peer group age.

Additionally, there is a huge difference between children in years R&1 than 5&6. Most parents feel their children out grow small schools towards the end of their primary years. I had the choice between a primary with one class per year or infant (2 classes/yr) and then junior school with 4 classes (of 34!) per year. Making this decision when my eldest was 3, I really thought the small school looked liked the better option. Everyone told me differently. I chose the infant/junior route, partly for this reason but also because they were the better schools academically, had far better facilities (swimming pool, lots of outdoor space) and we could walk from home. It was the right decision. Sometimes there aren't enough people from which to find good friends at small schools; my best friend from uni who lives in a different area has just moved her kids to a bigger school - when eldest reached Y3 (7 yrs old.) Her son was in a class of 9 boys, which she felt he had already outgrown.

Interestingly, my youngest daughter absolutely hated going to pre-school for her last term. She is old for the year (September birthday) and they put it down to her being ready to move on to school. They also said it is quite common, despite it being new to me!

Lunar_Eclipse

I've since read the thread in more detail and would personally definitely choose the larger, local school.

Poppy9

I would go for the local school.

My DD now 14 is a shy, sensitive child. When she started nursery school age 3 she spent most of her time holding the LA hand during play time and they had to sit with her at whole of school assembly (200 children) because she found it so overwhelming.

However throughout reception class she started to make friends and settled fine. She will always be a quiet, sensitive person, that is her nature but as her Y1 teacher told me "she doesn't lack confidence, she is just cautious and considered".

DD school year was a bumper year locally and her class size by Y1 was 35 children. As Wales had a max. of 30 children per class at that time the head had funding for a second teacher. We, the parents, were offered the choice of 2 classes of 17 & 18 or one class of 35 with 2 teachers. We went for the one class with 2 teachers.

This meant if the child didn't not gel with one class teacher then there was another teacher available. If you have a small class, mixed age group, then you could have the same teacher for 3 years. What if you child doesn't learn well with that teacher?

Because the school overall only had 200 children, each and every child was known to not only the teachers but the Head and support staff too.

A bigger class with 17 girls in her class did give DD a larger pool for friendships in her own age group. Girls are very fussy and !!!!!y and I have friends who have seen their DD suffer from being excluded from the girls in their class where there were only 8-10 girls.

Academically it hasn't held DD back at all being in a larger class. By the end of reception class she was reading fluently and by the end of the first term of Y1 was moved onto the junior level reading scheme books. When she was assessed on her move to senior school she was in the top group across the board, as were the other 9 children who moved to senior school with her.

She is now in Y9 at senior school, a school which has 2000 pupils. It was a bit of a shock moving to such a large school but it has done her good. It has exposed her to a cross section of society which will stand her in good stead throughout her life. As one of life's quieter people she has to compete to be heard and I think in a smaller school she might have got away with remaining quiet and would never had the chance to experience speaking or even just standing on stage in front of hundreds of people.

Finally the danger with small schools is that they close or merge and this means that parents and staff may become focussed on fighting the closure/merger and instead of just enjoying her primary school years you all end up stressed by what the merger/closure will mean.

shirlgirl2004

Money_maker wrote: »

From the emotional point of view, yes. But if a teacher is absent or leaves, this can cause concern for the children in getting to know a new teacher. Some primary schools struggle to attract male teachers, yet at senior school your child will come into contact with dozens of different teachers/teaching styles.

One on one with small number of supervisory adults is not always a good thing.

Most primary schools struggle to attract male teachers just because the school is small doesn't make a lot of difference. The school my DD is moving to (21 pupils) has a part-time male teacher as well as 4 female teachers (1 is part-time). Also there are the peripatetic teachers that come in, I don't know if any of these are male but they may be.

IMO close bonds are important for children and to be able to have that at school is great. That close bond can be there in a large or small school. My DS1 went to a primary with single form entry and when his teacher left mid year the class were all heart broken in an almost extreme way. It just goes to show that an inspirational teacher can bond with the class whatever the size. I think it is sad that someone would chose a larger school just so their child didn't bond with his/her teacher. It just seems society is moving toward no physical contact between teachers and children and that all non family members should be kept at arms length. I don't believe that is what infant school children need.

I also believe people end up as more rounded individuals if they can easily and naturally relate to people younger and older than themselves. With the way that families are fragmenting children are getting less opportunities to mix across the generations and any opportunity to do this should be encouraged.

As for playing with children from school at the weekend etc IMO it is ideal to encourage wide friendships so children play with neighbors children that attend other schools and play with friend from brownies or whatever other groups they attend.

All JMO of course and all related to my personal parenting choices.

Spendless

As and when the smaller school does merge, which school will it merge with and how many children will there then be to a school year (ie is it likely to end up the same size as the one you currently are not sure about?).

milliebear00001

I am a primary teacher, and also had this exact problem when deciding which school my daghter should go to - large, but good, school down the road, or small village school with mixed year groups.

As a teacher, I'd say it's harder to deliver high quality teaching to all children when the age spread in your classroom is large (as in most mixed year group classes) but this is often offset by the smaller class sizes. Smaller classes definitely makes it easier for the teacher to teach!

Having said that, the smaller class is not always beneficial for the child. Some children do very well in the cosy atmosphere of the village school, but for my daughter, I was concerned that she would then only have the 20 children in her class to make friends with rather than the 60 in her year group at the larger school. Friendships come and go at primary, and I wanted my daughter to have lots of children (and local to our home) to play with over the primary years.

Another concern (for me) is that sometimes, children who have been to a small village school may struggle more when they go to secondary.

I went with the big, local school. It hasn't been perfect, but I think that's rare anywhere! It really does depend a lot on your family situation, your daughter's personality, how good the teaching is, how well the school prepares the children for change etc etc etc. It's impossible to know! She'll probably be fine wherever she goes because she has supportive parents, and that's one of the biggest factors in any child's experience of education. Go with your gut instinct!

mrsbez_2

Thanks so much for your replies, i feel alot better for getting it off my chest as i was starting to panic a little. My friends are hard to talk to as they have chosen the schools for their own reasons.

The smaller school has been told it may have to merge with another school of the same size which is also a very popular and an oversubscribed school.
The smaller school is made up of three classes, class 1 which is rec/yr1/yr2, class 2 which is yr3/4 and class 3 yrs5/6. The head teaches class1 along with another teacher. And then one teacher each for the other classes. There are no male teachers in this school.

The larger local school is not really a 'large school' as some of you have mentioned. It has a total role of 189 and there is only one class per year group. So it is not huge by any means.

Our local secondary is quite a small high school aswell.

My daughter has an October birthday and so she is one of the older children in the nursery at present, maybe this could be the cause of the problem.

dizziblonde

As for the male teacher thing - they're a rare species across the entire set of primary schools - it's just a very very heavily female-dominated profession unfortunately (although I've lost out on a job I'd done well for a year because they wanted a man in when it became a permanent post). It's not a small school/big school thing - it's just a very small potential pool of male applicants for teaching posts - I think there were three men on my teacher training course a few years back and from what I gather at least one of them isn't teaching anymore.

I'd go look round both schools - and very much go on your instinct because you'll know which one your daughter is going to fit in better in. I see a LOT of schools these days (I don't teach full-time because a very stressful situation made me ill and I'm not prepared to put my health on the line like that anymore, but I do a lot of supply across 4 different LEAs so I see all sorts) and schools very much have their own unique vibe, quirks and strengths - and they can be dramatically influenced by who is the Head at the school... if the Head's one who gets your hackles rising from meeting them initially - they're not likely to be running the right place for your child to fit in.

msb5262

Hello OP,
My personal feeling is that if you can see your way to sending your daughter to the local, larger school it will be of huge benefit socially throughout her time in primary school.
I'm sorry your daughter isn't having the best time at the moments with friendships etc. I think you're having a bit of a wobble about this whole idea of your daughter starting school - and it's not surprising. This is a big change to both your lives and you feel responsible for making everything ok for her. Whatever decision you make will have its advantages and disadvantages;in the end, if she is loved and cared for at home, she'll cope with the challenges of school life.
Anyway, you can only do your best and it sounds as if you are doing just that.
Best wishes,
MsB