Independant Status ... HELP!!!!!!!

mrsmx5

My Stepdaughter (20) who lives with us has been offered a place at Uni.:T She is applying for the Student Grant and the Maintenance Grant.

She has told us that our income does not have to be considered as she has been working part time whilst at college and is considered as financially independant, and therefore will recieve the maximum grants.

She left school and has done two x 2 years courses at the local college and has worked part time for the last two years on average 18 - 20 hours a week at the local supermarket.

She originally lived with her mother, but moved in with us in October last year, and has never lived in her own property.

She wants to rent an apartment near the Uni with her boyfriend, who is not a student , so would have all the extra bills, ie: rent approx £460. per month and council tax with the 25% discount.

Everywhere I check, I cannot see how our salaries would not be assessed as we earn in excess of £45,000 between us. I dont understand how she can be assessed as Independant.

We have a good relationship but when I ask her about this, she says "It's ok, I've checked it out. Don't worry".

Could someone please point me in the right direction for her way of reasoning.

Oldernotwiser

I can only say that you are right and she is wrong. She needs to have been out of education and supporting herself for at least 3 years to claim independent status.

Do you think that she is simply misinformed or do you think it's possible that she may be trying to lie to the authorities that she is estranged from her parents or that she still lives with her mother ? (Sorry to be blunt.)

Taiko

Older is (once again) correct. Has to be self supporting by means of work for 36 months or claiming benefits (EMA doesn't count).

If she tried to claim estrangement, she'd again probably fall at the first hurdle. I see students trying to claim that all the time, then making errors that contradict theirselves on the application.

mrsmx5

Thankyou so much for your replies, I was begining to think I missed something, when searching information on the loans. She tells us that she had to get in touch with the Inland Revenue for a form on her earnings to prove that she is Independant ( We haven't seen this form), and is going today to open a student account to have her monies paid into.

Oldernotwiser There is no such thing as blunt if its relevant, I dont think that she will claim to be living with her mum as that would mean post going to that address, and they have fallen out, we're still encouraging her to build bridges with her mum, but thats another story.

She will have had to apply that she is living here, which is why I cant comprehend our incomes not being accounted for.

I really feel for her as she has no understanding of the value of money and bugeting... and wont take advice re money.

Taiko Thankyou for the clarification on the 36mths.

I have spoken to her this morning about the Independant status/self supporting and I had forgotten that she worked at a fast food chain part time, before the supermarket, so therefore she has worked since she started college, nearly four years. Does this change things as it is over 36mths. Even though the money would not have been enough to be self sufficient, and has always lived with a parent paying a nominal rent.

I really dont want her to set herself up to fail, Uni and living in halls would be ideal, but she's insistant she can get an appartment oh and not forgetting a car!!!!!!! because she will get these grants.

Any comments appreciated.

MrsManda

Where has she got her information from?
She will need to be able to prove that she has earned enough to support herself for 36 months prior to the 1st of September. This means she has to have met all her living costs without help from parents. This I believe includes things like paying for council tax, rent, bills etc...
I don't think it's only a matter of money though it is doubtful she's earnt enough on part time work to cover everything unless she's been claiming benefits as well, but also proof that she has indeed paid bills. This can be through her being a named person or evidence of direct debits from bank statements.

MrsManda

I've found a Pdf. - How you are assessed and paid from Student Finance. It can be found HERE
On page 22 is says that independent status is held if one or more of the following conditions apply:
Supported yourself for at least 3 yrs. This includes:
Paid FULL time employment
Received Income support, Jobseekers allowance or other benefit available to those available for employment/registered as unemployed.
Parents can not be traced or contacted
No communication with parents for a least a year

There's a few other other exceptions (marriage etc... but they definately don't apply)

mrsmx5

MrsManda I would love to know where she has her information from as it completely contradicts anything I can find. The way I see it is she has to apply as a dependant and our salaries taken into account, which would lower any grant she could claim, and she would have to live in halls. You are right its not just a matter of money, its about maturity, sense of direction, and a "big hello" to the real world.

Oh I am soooo worried about her. The only bill she has paid is her mobile phone bill:eek:. As she has been living with her mum or here with her dad, she has paid a nominal rent (25pw). That covers house and facilities, bills, food. She has never paid any bill relating to the running of a household, no savings, and has not received any benefits.

It really sounds as if she is NOT going to get the grants she is depending on.

I KNOW she cannot afford to do this the way she is trying to do it, but trying to explain that to a headstrong 20yr old, is like banging your head against a brick wall. I would rather we look at the situation as it is,than her come unstuck.


Does anyone know where I can find it written down EXACTLY what Independant/Self supporting requires. So that I can sit down with her tonight and go through things, as everytime we try this, she knows better than us and it would be good to be armed with some facts, to see if we can help her in any way. Particularly information on that she would have to prove that she has been self supporting and paying bills.

MrsManda your a star just seen your new reply, now off to read the pdf, this is very much appreciated

Oldernotwiser

mrsmx5 wrote: »

Thankyou so much for your replies, I was begining to think I missed something, when searching information on the loans. She tells us that she had to get in touch with the Inland Revenue for a form on her earnings to prove that she is Independant ( We haven't seen this form), and is going today to open a student account to have her monies paid into.

Oldernotwiser There is no such thing as blunt if its relevant, I dont think that she will claim to be living with her mum as that would mean post going to that address, and they have fallen out, we're still encouraging her to build bridges with her mum, but thats another story.

She will have had to apply that she is living here, which is why I cant comprehend our incomes not being accounted for.

I really feel for her as she has no understanding of the value of money and bugeting... and wont take advice re money.

Taiko Thankyou for the clarification on the 36mths.

I have spoken to her this morning about the Independant status/self supporting and I had forgotten that she worked at a fast food chain part time, before the supermarket, so therefore she has worked since she started college, nearly four years. Does this change things as it is over 36mths. Even though the money would not have been enough to be self sufficient, and has always lived with a parent paying a nominal rent.

I really dont want her to set herself up to fail, Uni and living in halls would be ideal, but she's insistant she can get an appartment oh and not forgetting a car!!!!!!! because she will get these grants.

Any comments appreciated.

I'm glad I didn't offend you. Fom a university website.

Definition of an independent student



Students will normally be assessed on their parents' gross income from all sources unless:
a) the student is 25 or over at the start of the academic year in which the course begins
b) the student is married
c) the student has responsibility for a child
d) the student has been self-supporting, i.e. not in full-time education, for the three years prior to the start of the course
e) the student is estranged from parents f) the student is a care leaver

As you can see (you may well have realised this already) she doesn't qualify under any heading.

I really think that you need to find out whether she's misinformed or trying to lie to get more money. She may think, for example, that she can just say that she's only been at college part time to enable her to get this additional funding but she could well find herself investigated and in trouble if she tries this. It's very difficult for someone of 20 to be considered independent and I'm sure she'll find her application closely monitored.

Another thought occurs; I wonder if she realises that the assessment depends on the household income, including that of the step parent? Many people don't realise that this is the case and think that it's only the resident parent that counts.

I really think that you or her father need to get to the bottom of this; at best, she's going to be in for a nasty shock, at worst she's considering committing fraud, whether through ignorance or not.

Good luck with it; you may need it!

mrsmx5

Oldernotwiser Thankyou for the reply.

I think she really does believe that she is independant, I dont think she is trying to commit fraud, but we are not willing to take that chance.

She believes that because she pay us rent and in working she is Independant. The money she has earnt over the last four years, would not have been enough to have rented a place, let alone pay bills and live.

I think she has read the information and seen what she wants to see, as previously said, she has even got a letter from the Inland Revenue about her earnings over the last four years.

She has been on two Full time college courses, and working part time so she will definately NOT QUALIFY.

Thanks for the good luck and yes we will need it, because we will have to explain her that if she wants to go to Uni, then she will have to apply and with our salaries taken into account, which means a reduced grant and us supporting her. This may be difficult as we may not be able to afford to do this. Need to look at that option.

I feel that I am now armed with enough facts to sit down and discuss the full situation, as any previous discussions go along the line of " I know I'm right, cos I've checked it out."

Thankyou so much to everyone, this site is fantastic, and you are such wonderful people to take time to help.

Will update and let you know how we get on.

Any further comments would still be appreciated as it may help with the chat tonight.

MrsManda Have now printed out the PDF so it cannot be disputed Thankyou

mrsmx5

I really must learn to spell INDEPENDENT :rotfl:

princessamy86

I've been supporting myself (away from home) for the last 3 years, but as I wasn't quite at the 36 months at the start of my course they have classed me as dependent on my mum and stepdad-even though he doesn't pay anything! They won't change a student's circumstances halfway through a course, so I would definitely say she is going to be assessed according to the household income. Maybe just ask her if she wants a hand filling the forms in? They're quite complicated and if you just ask her if she wants help, you can go through it and maybe explain to her why she is going to be assessed as a dependent.