when does the harrassment end!

flowergirlgush

When does all the harrassment end???

I went BR in feb this year. I had a house which i rented out, mortgage in my name. The mortgage company had a repo order on it before i went BR.

After i went BR i sent them a copy of my BR order. I then received a phone call a few weeks later asking if i could pay the ouystanding arrears and can i make payments on the mortgage! I told them i was BR and not working, so no i couldnt, ended up putting phone down, i mean, where do they think i gonna get the money from.

They tried to ring me several times, the usual just like before i was BR, so i have been ignoring the calls, what do they want me to tell them.

Then i check the post today to find they have sent a debt counsellor round to the house (where i have recently moved to) to try and sort it out. What do they want me to tell them. So now im having the same harrassment i got before BR.

What should i do, if anything? Ive already told them to repo the property as they have a repo order on it, and have had for months. The house has been empty for months too!

dalip

Give your OR a ring and tell them they are harassing you at your new address.I had a few problems a few months after i went bc(with a catalogue company) i just rang the OR and told them. Pretty soon after all went quiet.Dx

flowergirlgush

I think they can harrass me though until they decide to sell the property, i was surprised they had the cheek to ask me for £5000 when they knew i was BR! They just wasting their money sending a debt counsellor, dont know why they doing it as all the debt will fall into my BR anyway eventually!

Merlinexcalibur

Hang on:

Then i check the post today to find they have sent a debt counsellor

Whom is sending a 'debt counsellor' to your house? And will know nothing about 'counselling' except how to say 'gives us your money' no doubt. The creditor? If so, there is a letter which is given to most people in debt to send or pass by hand (whether BR or not). It's also somewhere on MSE, the template letter for this situation. Basically, they are just trying it on ie that is the reason, they think they can harass you knowing all that above.

I think they can harrass me though until they decide to sell the property, i was surprised they had the cheek to ask me for £5000 when they knew i was BR!

Can they now. Which part of going BR do they not understand? It's within fair debt collection guidelines for a start. What they know they cannot get away with. As you have already gone BR I would suggest they are breaking them right now by using this unfair pressure the whole time knowing it. I would certainly deduce this most certainly falls into psychological intimidation, plus a few other things. Have a look at the OFT guidelines for example on this, they may be useful. And, on the other, taking advantage of it, too.

I would personally do what Dalip suggests and let the OR sort this bunch out. As they obviously need sorting out by someone who has a very big iron bar eg someone of officialdom to give them a much needed slap!

Merlinexcalibur

Here dug up somethings which might be useful with particular reference to the bypassing third parties bit eg your OR:

Creditors and debt collectors must follow OFT (Office of Fair Trading) debt collection guidance. This guidance is intended to set out the type of behaviour the OFT considers to fall within the category of unfair business practices, which will call into question fitness to retain, or be given a licence.
Communication
It is unfair to communicate with consumers, in whatever form, in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner.
Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

• Use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead debtors as to their status, e.g. documents made to resemble court claims
• Leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge
• Those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who they work for, what their role is, what the purpose of the contact is
• Unnecessary and unhelpful use of legal and technical language e.g. use of Latin phrases
• Failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status of debts, e.g, not providing requested balance statements when reasonably requested, contacting debtors at unreasonable times, ignoring or disregarding debtors' legitimate wishes in respect of when and where to contact them, e.g. shift workers who ask not to be telephoned during certain times of the day
• Asking or instructing debtors to make contact on premium rate telephone numbers

False representation of authority
Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position.
Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

• Falsely implying or claiming authority, e.g. claiming to work on instructions from the courts, claiming to be bailiffs or, in Scotland, sheriff officers or messenger-at-arms.
• Falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot, e.g. referring to bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings when the balance is too low to qualify for such proceedings, or claiming a right of entry when no court order to this effect has been granted.
• Misrepresenting status or backing, such as using a logo which falsely implies government backing, using a business name which implies public body status, or falsely claiming trade body membership.
• Falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not, e.g. that civil action has been taken or that a court judgment has already been obtained.
• Falsely implying or stating that failure to pay a debt is a criminal offence, or that criminal proceedings will be brought.
• Pursuing third parties for payment when they are not liable.
• Taking or threatening to take court action in the wrong jurisdiction, e.g. taking action against a Scottish debtor in an English court unless legally justified.

Physical/psychological harassment
Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.
Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

• Contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals
• Pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further borrowing or to extend their borrowing
• Using more than one debt collection business at the same time resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties
• Not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as appropriate, resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties
• Not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a different debt collector
• Pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so
• Making threatening statements or gestures, or taking actions which suggest harm to debtors
• Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed, and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment
• Disclosing or threatening to disclose debt details to third parties unless legally entitled to do so
• Acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor, either deliberately or through lack of care, e.g. by not putting correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox, thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties.

Deceptive and/or unfair methods
Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.
Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

• Sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question, e.g. threatening debt recovery action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing the same name/date of birth as a debtor, in the hope that contact with the correct debtor will be made
• Disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question, e.g. disclosing details to 'the occupier' of an address
• Refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such as Citizens Advice Bureaux, Independent Advice Centres or money advisers
• Contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives
• Operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with debt management companies
• Passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the debtors' informed prior consent
• Failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments
• Not passing on payments received within a reasonable time resulting in delays that adversely affect a debtor's financial position
• Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued
• Requiring an individual to supply information to prove they are not the debtor in question, e.g. driving licences, passports, full name, date of birth, signatures
• Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

Apologies for the information overload but I copied it in one chunk. But lots there may prove useful to anyone else, too.

flowergirlgush

thanks very much, i was just looking through the info myself

beentheredonethatstilhere

Unfortunatly as the debt is still secured on the property they can try to get the money from you. When it is sold the debt becomes unsecured and will fall into the bankruptcy pot.

But they still have to follow guidelines so if they do harrass you then there is steps you can follow. I am sure someone will tell you what those are.

The OR will not get involved because it is not yet into your bankruptcy.

Merlinexcalibur

Oh, so that foils all that, then. Really.

Lensman_2

Merlin, you posted this letter a while ago...

FGG - Send this recorded post. If it doesn't stop the doorstep collector visits, you must report them to the OFT. Keep a diary and any evidence. If they do turn up, they are trespassing and you are entitled to call the police.

Dear xxxx
Account Ref xxxx
Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.
Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.
There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).
Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.
Yours faithfully,

flowergirlgush

I presume the fact that the OR is not interested in it is possibly why they may be harrassing me for the money, as they know the property is in negative equity and they are unlikely to get all their money back?

But surely if they asked me for £5000 and i paid it to them, them would i not be breaking the law, as does not all my excess monies have to go through the OR/trustee and not directly to a creditor? Would i not get into trouble (if i had £5000 or any excess monies!) for paying it directly to them?

Merlinexcalibur

But surely if they asked me for £5000 and i paid it to them, them would i not be breaking the law, as does not all my excess monies have to go through the OR/trustee and not directly to a creditor? Would i not get into trouble (if i had £5000 or any excess monies!) for paying it directly to them?

I think you need to speak to either a money advisor or one of the debt charities/CAB (but not every CAB has a financial specialist and you may end up with duff info as a result) about this or, possibly, speak to your OR to get an impression. I am not an expert, sorry.

Only wish I was, but not. I sucketh.