Heart breaking

baileysbattlebus

Masomnia wrote: »

I think that's true, especially when you factor in the higher than inflation rise in the state pension this year, plus the winter fuel allowance, free bus travel, free TV licences for over 75s.

It's all well and good blaming low interest rates providing low income, but people with savings large enough to earn significant interest are not the ones we should be worried about. As a society we do not do enough for our elderly, it's a sad trend that has seen so many old people put in homes and forgotten about by their children. I too would love to see an increase in the state pension but I don't think young people today are willing to pay extra tax to fund it

I agree with you, it shouldn't be the ones who have enough savings to generate a significant income, it's the one's who don't.

We don't do enough for our poorer elderly citizens. We have the highest rate of unecessary winter deaths in Europe according to WHO. And as Pobby says, some our pensioners will have paid into the system for 45 years.

Financially, state pensioners probably have more money coming in than they ever had before, and although inflation is supposed to be low, fuel prices are very high, even with the reductions taking place.
Basic food stuff seems to be going up every week.

We are still one of the richest countries in the world and we can't provide the basic needs for our most vulnerable people.

If they have families they need to take a close look at themselves too, I wouldn't have seen my parents go without once I was old enough to do something about it. They did without for me.

What young people forget is that they won't be young people forever, one day some of them will be in the same position as our poorer pensioners.

Optimist

CLAPTON wrote: »

Nevertheles, pensioners are probably better off than ever before (pension credit, housing benefit, council tax benefit)

I wonder how much the chief exec of Age Concern gets paid; maybe less than fred the shread but maybe a little more than pension creidt.

Strange that they have to claim to get a reasonable standard of living. Why not just give a decent pension and save the money of administrating all the above ? Anybody over the limit could still have the excess clawed back via the tax system.

Having had to fill out the forms required at various times for the above, not for me I hasten to add, I can see why older people don't claim, its complex and they want to know everything

I think its a form of control, give people a decent pension and they take it as read make them claim and they think this wonderful government is going out of its way to help, thus more votes !

I should change my user name to cynical !

lostinrates

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I agree with you, it shouldn't be the ones who have enough savings to generate a significant income, it's the one's who don't.

We don't do enough for our poorer elderly citizens. We have the highest rate of unecessary winter deaths in Europe according to WHO. And as Pobby says, some our pensioners will have paid into the system for 45 years.

Financially, state pensioners probably have more money coming in than they ever had before, and although inflation is supposed to be low, fuel prices are very high, even with the reductions taking place.
Basic food stuff seems to be going up every week.

We are still one of the richest countries in the world and we can't provide the basic needs for our most vulnerable people.

If they have families they need to take a close look at themselves too, I wouldn't have seen my parents go without once I was old enough to do something about it. They did without for me.

I didn't know that about winter deaths. shocking. Especially as some places have caps on how much heat they are allowed to use through winter, and we don't.

Fwiw although I don't look forward to being old fullstop I'd rather be old without family in UK than old without family in Italy.

I think the family point is very true. Its very, very hard though, for people with a full time job and possibly children to also factor in a parent at another address, and not practical in most small UK houses to have them living within one family home....even if its possble to provide care. I think its another symptom of a greater issue to do with balance..

Storm

The difficulty with any benefit system is that you either have to have something universal (£95 pw pension) which will also go to the rich who don't need it (Fred Goodwin will get his when he hits 65) or you have to means-test. The difficulty with mean-testing for benefits is that some people won't like having to answer the questions, and as you have to apply for it, others will be too proud (as someone said before)

To be honest, a basic pension, which can then be topped up if there isn't a personal pension or other income in place seems about the fairest way - but then if the state pension (with or without top up) is too generous, then the worry is that it will stop people contributing towards their own retirement as why should they pay for it when they'll get a great pension from the government?

To be honest, I'm glad I never wanted to go into politics, my head is hurting just thinking this one through!

CLAPTON

Optimist wrote: »

Strange that they have to claim to get a reasonable standard of living. Why not just give a decent pension and save the money of administrating all the above ? Anybody over the limit could still have the excess clawed back via the tax system.

Having had to fill out the forms required at various times for the above, not for me I hasten to add, I can see why older people don't claim, its complex and they want to know everything

I think its a form of control, give people a decent pension and they take it as read make them claim and they think this wonderful government is going out of its way to help, thus more votes !

I should change my user name to cynical !

It's certainly a different approach to claw back money....
however, it would presumably mean that pensioners with income over 130 per week would have to pay a higher rate of tax than ordinary working people to claw back the money ... probably not a vote winner through.

SingleSue

My parents have not even tried to claim for pension credit, they did ask for the forms but took one look at it and ran for the hills! (Not literally you understand). I did try to help them but then dad clammed up on how much he gets as he is old school and doesn't like to divulge that sort of information to one of his children.

It was much the same way a few years before he retired, he was sure he was on the wrong tax code but wouldn't allow me to look at his pay slip, wouldn't ring the tax office (he did ring once but got so confuzzled with the questions, he gave up), speak to human resources etc so my mum sneaked a pay slip out one night when dad went to bed early and let me have a gander...he was indeed on the wrong tax code.

So, no idea if they are eligable to claim or not.

StevieJ

Maybe they could divert Richard Bransons winter heating allowance to someone more needy.

IlonaRN

lostinrates wrote: »

I didn't know that about winter deaths. shocking. Especially as some places have caps on how much heat they are allowed to use through winter, and we don't.

I didn't know about the winter deaths either, though it doesn't really surprise me. A lot of buildings in this country are very poorly built, so impossible to keep properly warm at a reasonable price.

Compare to Denmark, where building regulations mean that buildings must be draught-proof. Even when I was in student accomodation in DK, I never experienced any house as cold as the ones here!

Pobby

Well not many years to go to retirement and according to entitiledto we will get nothing. However, I reallly would have no qualms whatsoever in claiming something what is due to me.

I have paid in loads over the years and I wouldn`t care less about means testing but I do understand that old folk can be to proud to divulge there circumstances.

ad9898_3

Masomnia wrote: »

It's all well and good blaming low interest rates providing low income, but people with savings large enough to earn significant interest are not the ones we should be worried about.

No of course not, it's the !!!!!! with a BMW X5 on the drive, a 50' plasma on the wall, a photgraph album full of pics from far away holidays, and a mortgage statement from one of the bailed out banks saying they are 3 months in arrears and repossession papers are about to be served, as they sit on their 'DFS buy now pay later sofa' crying, asking Brown 'to do something for them'.

Well he has done something for them, he's hurting the most vulnerable in society, hurting the ones who've worked and saved all their lives for a decent retirement, and now face rising food and fuel prices with income, that for some has dropped over 80% in the last 7 months.

I hope people who are benefiting can sleep well at night.