lack of info on parking sign - do i have a leg to stand on?

rizzla

got slapped 2 tickets for parking on a resident disabled bay over bank holiday, without displaying a resident disabled permit. gutted.
firstly im sure my road isnt controlled (from historical knowledge - so they must have changed the rules recently)

easter sunday - 4pm
bank hol monday - 9am

im being cheeky and appealing based on the fact that it doesnt specify anywhere on the board or anywhere on the road that the bay is monitored on sundays and bank holidays betwen x hours. do i have a leg to stand on?
all the other resident bays (for which i have a permit for) all have a board with explicit times and days.

so using Martin's template:
dear bla bla
I received a parking ticket but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit a challenge for the following reason: The alleged contravention did not occur.
I parked in a resident disabled bay at my residential address, opposite a sign which says “Disabled resident permit holders only”. Below is a picture of the sign
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2425/img5974i.jpg

The sign does not specify the timings during which this rule is enforced. I have gone up and down the road and cannot see any signs that specify timings when a road user can or can’t park in a disabled resident bay. I parked there on a Sunday afternoon and have no way of knowing if this bay is controlled on a Sunday.
If this bay is indeed controlled 24hrs, 7 days a week, this should be made clear on the sign. Eg:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6922/13396619.jpg

As such, the signage is palpably unclear, misleading and thus invalid. I did not disobey any parking signs and therefore ask that in the sake of good governance, the fine is cancelled.

etc


P.S - wrt to the ethical side of whether its ok to park on a disabled person's resident bay - ive lived on this road 12 years, very good relationship with my neighbours. the 'owner' of the resident disabled bay (well not owner, but the one for who it was initially provided for) is a good friend of mine and was away that weekend. i have parked on his spot many a times and we have an understanding where he'll call me if im parked at his spot when he needs it. furthermore, the only other resident with a disabled permit on my road is my mother - for whom we have another bay - what im trying to say is i was highly unlikely preventing another legitimate disabled person from using that spot during that weekend.

Hooka74

Usually Disabled bays are disabled bays full stop, you have no badge, you no park.. Check with the council to see if the bay has been written into the local traffic order. (Its amazing how many times its not!)

On residents bays if it doesn't say a time, it should be assumed its 24 hours a day.

Mark_Hewitt

Hooka74 wrote: »

On residents bays if it doesn't say a time, it should be assumed its 24 hours a day.

Precisely. No times does NOT mean "Not on Sunday" it means ALL THE TIME.

rizzla

>>On residents bays if it doesn't say a time, it should be assumed its 24 hours a day.
>>No times does NOT mean "Not on Sunday" it means ALL THE TIME.

I think that makes but I dont agree with it - I'm interested to see the relevant traffic regulation that backs this up.

Neil_B

rizzla wrote: »

I'm interested to see the relevant traffic regulation that backs this up.

well do as Hooka suggested in the first place then.

TheBogsDollocks

If a sign does not stipulate a time period then it is to be taken as applying 24/7. You may not have have been aware of this rule but saying so will not be accepted as an excuse.

However, in your favour is that the disabled sign is non compliant with the TSRGD 2002. The sign they have used is a mix of a permit holders only sign (diagram 660.3) and a disabled sign (diagram 661.A). The sign to be legal would need a special authorisation from the DfT and I doubt this will have been granted to such a sign.

So one appeal point is that the sign, unless the council can provide a proof of DfT authorisation, is that the sign fails to comply with the TSRGD 2002 and therefore the bay fails to comply with the legal requirement and is therefore legally unenforceable.

Expect the authority to deny this though until a date with an adjudicator looms.

rizzla

TheBogsDollocks - thanks for the reply - exactly the type of answer i wanted. questions:

>>If a sign does not stipulate a time period then it is to be taken as applying 24/7. You may not have have been aware of this rule

I am not aware of this. Can I ask by what virtue should a road user be aware of this rule? I did my theory test 8yrs ago and my if my memory serves me right, this was not one of the rules we were required to know.

>>The sign they have used is a mix of a permit holders only sign (diagram 660.3) and a disabled sign (diagram 661.A). The sign to be legal would need a special authorisation from the DfT

where is this defined in the TSRGD 2002 specification (im looking at the one over at the opsi.gov.uk website)

Orford

660.3:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/02311354.gif

661.A:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/02311358.gif

trinidadone

just a few addittional things you might want to consider.

1) is the ticket correct (check the details for reg, make, location, time/date, colour, contrvention, amount.

2) i am assuming this was on the public highway, as appose to private land ?????

3) was there any observation time on the ticket to rule out loading/unloading?

4) are the white lines consistant and clear, councils have a duty to ensure all bays are correctly painted on the roads.

5) often parking bays exist within controlled parking zones.

6) Parking bays should have a sign and they should be clear.

hope some of these suggestions help

rizzla

orford - i meant the text where that rule is defined

rizzla

Lee_Dunford wrote: »

just a few addittional things you might want to consider.

1) is the ticket correct (check the details for reg, make, location, time/date, colour, contrvention, amount.

2) i am assuming this was on the public highway, as appose to private land ?????

3) was there any observation time on the ticket to rule out loading/unloading?

4) are the white lines consistant and clear, councils have a duty to ensure all bays are correctly painted on the roads.

5) often parking bays exist within controlled parking zones.

6) Parking bays should have a sign and they should be clear.

hope some of these suggestions help

1) it is
2) public
3) no
4) yes

5) & 6) - they were clear

good set of questions though - i like!