PPI - Pressure Sell/Public Sector Worker

Hipsysidecar

Hello everyone,

My first ever post, although a regular at the site.

When I remortgaged my property in Nov 2007 it was handled through a broker. At the time I was sold PPI by a *very* pushy individual at said Broker firm. He wanted to sell me PPI that would cover my mortgage and bills if I was taken ill etc. (to the tune of £6,000), and despite many attempts to resist, eventually I relented and opted for cover for bills only - total paid over time with interest is £4678.12.

The money was added to the cost of the mortgage, however, it was the broker that sold it to me - presumably then the Broker is the company I should contact in the first instance? That sounds like a silly question now...but clarification would help.

Also, when the policy was sold I worked for, and still do, the NHS - despite me telling the chap that I would qualify for 6-months at full pay and a further 6-months at half pay he still pressurised me into buying. Since doing a little bit of reading on the subject, I think that the very fact that I am a public sector worker may go in my favour in the event of a claim. Has anyone got any comment/advise along those lines? At the time my husband had also applied for a job with the NHS, and he now is also employed by them - the salesman was aware of this at that time.

One more thing - I've spoken to a claims reclaimation firm today that want 28.5% with VAT and another that want 29%, so I think in the first instance will try to claim it back myself. I have considered ringing a solicitor to see if they can help with a fixed-fee - has anyone taken this route.

Sorry for such a long post, but I am totally in the dark with all this...:o

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,

Hipsy x

dunstonh

At the time I was sold PPI by a *very* pushy individual at said Broker firm.

Was it a PPI, PHI or MPPI?

He wanted to sell me PPI that would cover my mortgage and bills if I was taken ill etc. (to the tune of £6,000), and despite many attempts to resist, eventually I relented and opted for cover for bills only - total paid over time with interest is £4678.12.

The FSA expect advisers to make you aware of your potential shortfall areas and recommend accordingly.

The money was added to the cost of the mortgage,

Are you saying it was single premium or was it the monthly (the latter being the norm with MPPI and PHI and most PPIs in your scenario).

it was the broker that sold it to me - presumably then the Broker is the company I should contact in the first instance?

If the broker was an agent for an insurer you complain to the insurer. If the broker was an independent then you complain to the broker.

Also, when the policy was sold I worked for, and still do, the NHS - despite me telling the chap that I would qualify for 6-months at full pay and a further 6-months at half pay he still pressurised me into buying. Since doing a little bit of reading on the subject, I think that the very fact that I am a public sector worker may go in my favour in the event of a claim. Has anyone got any comment/advise along those lines?

If it was an MPPI then these will pay out against the mortgage even if you are on 6 months full/6 months half pay. If it was a PPI then it wouldnt pay out until after 6 months and even then only a little bit as you would be hit by the cap.

Typically, with those with employer benefits you would structure a PHI plan to match expiry of the employer benefits and a standalone unemployment plan if that area was a concern to you. However, sales reps dont always have those options available to them (IFAs obviously do). Sales reps only have to recommend the best option from their product range and not the best product possible.

I have considered ringing a solicitor to see if they can help with a fixed-fee - has anyone taken this route.

Not many people use solicitors to make complaints as there is no reason to. The complaints process is free of charge to you and generally follows what would happen in a court of law. Indeed, it is slightly more biased to the consumer compared to a court of law as there are time bars in court action which do not apply with the FOS and certain documents a court would consider which the FOS totally ignore. So, why pay for a solicitor and associated costs when you dont need to?

It should be noted that a sale in 2007 would have required a factfind and recommendation report. This would document your financial position and needs and the recommendation report would include justifications of the recommendation. It is these documents that make complaints on mortgage related protections much harder to get upheld successfully. However, that assumes that the advice is valid and what distribution channel you used (e.g. was it a tied rep, multi-tie or independent)

Hipsysidecar

Hi there Dun

I really appreciate your reply, and will look through in more detail once little one fed etc., and I can concentrate (without all the questions, lol! ).

'Didn't want you to think I was being unappreciative.

Many thanks, Hipsy.

Hipsysidecar

Hello again Dunster

Apologies in advance, but I am trying to quote portions of your message, and getting in a bit of a tizz, so will try my best!

**Was it a PPI, PHI or MPPI?**

At t

Hipsysidecar

Hello again Dunster

Apologies in advance, but I am trying to quote portions of your message, and getting in a bit of a tizz, so will try my best!

**Was it a PPI, PHI or MPPI?**

At the time, my understanding of it was that we were buying a policy to cover us for BILLS, not for the mortgage, however, upon closer examination of the paperwork, they are referring to it as MPPI.

Also, and I will need to dig out more paperwork from the actual mortgage company to fully clarify, but it seems MPPI is included in my mortgage, as this was a codicil of completing on the mortgage at the time. The policy that I have been sold as a 'extra' by the broker runs for 3 years only; if the mortgage company want MPPI, then 3-years' worth of it simply wouldn't be enough.

**Are you saying it was single premium or was it the monthly (the latter being the norm with MPPI and PHI and most PPIs in your scenario).**

It was a single premium. Also, there is a paragraph on the Brokers' letter stating that they have arranged for the application to be keyed 'online'...if there are any implications for that?

**If the broker was an agent for an insurer you complain to the insurer. If the broker was an independent then you complain to the broker.**

That part I am still a tad confused about - how could I find out if Broker is an agent for the insurer - completely different firm (obviously) and the documentation from the insurance company does state address for complaints, however, I had no negotiations with them whatsover and dealt solely with the Broker.

**If it was an MPPI then these will pay out against the mortgage even if you are on 6 months full/6 months half pay. If it was a PPI then it wouldnt pay out until after 6 months and even then only a little bit as you would be hit by the cap.**

It says on the factsheet that I would need to be off work for 30 consecutive days, after which I would qualifty to claim and that I would receive 1 month's benefit, after that on-thirtieth of the monthly benefit for each day thereafter. There is also a 3-month requalification period before being able to reclaim.

**Typically, with those with employer benefits you would structure a PHI plan to match expiry of the employer benefits and a standalone unemployment plan if that area was a concern to you. However, sales reps dont always have those options available to them (IFAs obviously do). Sales reps only have to recommend the best option from their product range and not the best product possible.**

None of this was discussed with me at all.

I've been niggling over agreeing to this extra insurance ever since the policy started. I think I might start with a letter direct to the Broker and see where that gets me - I think I would be wiser to try to do it myself than pay 25+% to an agent...

Thanks again for your help, I must say this seems like a very friendly forum.

Best wishes, Hipsy.

dunstonh

**Was it a PPI, PHI or MPPI?**

At the time, my understanding of it was that we were buying a policy to cover us for BILLS, not for the mortgage, however, upon closer examination of the paperwork, they are referring to it as MPPI.

It used to be known as accident, sickness and unemployment in the past. Its only more recently that MPPI has become the more common phrase (last year sometime was the move away from ASU).

MPPI means that it is not dependent on your work benefits. So, any complaint on that front would not be upheld.

Also, and I will need to dig out more paperwork from the actual mortgage company to fully clarify, but it seems MPPI is included in my mortgage, as this was a codicil of completing on the mortgage at the time. The policy that I have been sold as a 'extra' by the broker runs for 3 years only; if the mortgage company want MPPI, then 3-years' worth of it simply wouldn't be enough.

It would be very unusual, indeed virtually unheard of for any lender to insist on payment protection. I would question that. However, MPPI plans are open ended and dont finish at a point.

**Are you saying it was single premium or was it the monthly (the latter being the norm with MPPI and PHI and most PPIs in your scenario).**

It was a single premium. Also, there is a paragraph on the Brokers' letter stating that they have arranged for the application to be keyed 'online'...if there are any implications for that?

MIS-SALE. This is the key thing and really the only thing you have to worry about. Its also the easiest to get sorted. it also explains why you think it expires.

Virtually all MPPI plans are paid monthly and its virtually pay as you go. Yours was paid as a single premium. There is virtually no justificiation for it to be paid up front like that. Especially if it was added to the loan as you also pay interest on the premium. This is why 90% of single premium payment protection complaints are upheld.

I've been niggling over agreeing to this extra insurance ever since the policy started. I think I might start with a letter direct to the Broker and see where that gets me - I think I would be wiser to try to do it myself than pay 25+% to an agent...

These brokers are a disgrace. Problem is that many associate them with the other adviser classes which have much better reputations. What he has done is an easy complaint for you to make. It could be done on a single side of A4 paper and should focus on the following:

Single Premium payment protection added to the mortgage cannot be justified when a monthly payment by direct debit could have used without adding it to the mortgage. Interest is paid on that single premium insurance which could see you pay back three times more than had a monthly direct debit been set up for the insurance. You feel this is bad advice and has cost you a significant extra amount when there was no need for it to be done that way for any other reason than to increase the commission payment.

You request a refund of the premium plus interest and if they fail to agree to that you will refer the case to the financial ombudsman service.

Thats it. Short, sweet, to the point. No need to waffle and no need to mention the other things as they are just product features and as its MPPI it doesnt matter about work benefits (yes a standalone unemployment plan with a PHI would have been better but you would only find those available through IFAs and not most tied brokers who are limited in their product range).

If you want to PM me the company name, I will check the FSA register for you which gives the address you should complain to.

Hipsysidecar

Thanks again, the MPPI 'statement of price' from the broker refers to it as MPPI, however, the Payment Protection Key Facts document, refers to it as a 'Single Premium Accident Sickness and Unemployment Insurance' - that in itself is quite strange!!

I will read through your post in more detail, just wanted to clarify that bit...

You are a star!!!

Hipsy x