Contact Order

kirstoff

Hi can anyone advise please ?
My partner (the father) has a contact order to see his 2 x kids. Lately the mother has been saying the kids do NOT want to visit on his weekend to have them (they are 9yrs & 4yrs) so they have not been coming to see us.

Can I ask, is the mother in breach of court order for this ?
ie in my eyes the kids are too young to make this decision that they do not want to go and the mother should encourage/tell the kids they don't have a choice in the matter ?

Thanks everyone in advance, the local court are just saying to apply to enforce the order but I don't know if the court see it as a breach or not !

marksoton

It would depend on the wording of the order but they normally put the onus on the resident parent to make the children " available " for contact.

In all likely hood she is breaching the order so i would get it back to court. Don't leave it too long as a break in contact may be used against your partner.

kirstoff

marksoton wrote: »

It would depend on the wording of the order but they normally put the onus on the resident parent to make the children " available " for contact.

In all likely hood she is breaching the order so i would get it back to court. Don't leave it too long as a break in contact may be used against your partner.

Yes, the order does say to make the children available for contact. I just wondered how the court would see it - ie if it was a breach or not.
Thanks for your reply

marksoton

kirstoff wrote: »

Yes, the order does say to make the children available for contact. I just wondered how the court would see it - ie if it was a breach or not.
Thanks for your reply

Well she is not making them available for contact so yes she is breaching the order !

Get it back to court. You would have to be very unlucky to get a judge who thinks a 4 and 9 year old can make that decision without the court wishing to get CAFCASS involved. This may prolong things but thats all the more reason to get the ball rolling. The courts are starting to get a lot less patient with resident parents who start putting obstacles in the way of contact.

It maybe worth joining families need fathers as they have experts who can help at the fraction of the cost of a solicitor.

As your partner is not seeing his children he has nothing to lose by returning it to court.

kirstoff

Thanks for this , its so frustrating the heartache my partner goes through re seeing his kids. We shouldn't have to go to court, I really don't understand where his ex is coming from. But, you've helped me see it more clearly & back to court we go !

marksoton

Sometimes there really is no other option. Good luck.

LizzieS_2

We shouldn't have to go to court,

True, but there's nothing else. This is where courts get it wrong as they should make the guilty party pay costs whether they are on benefits or not.

I really don't understand where his ex is coming from.

I like many more on here do - it's aimed at costing you until you give up. When you do go back to court, make sure you get an order with a penal notice attached.

Ambera_2

kirstoff wrote: »

Thanks for this , its so frustrating the heartache my partner goes through re seeing his kids. We shouldn't have to go to court, I really don't understand where his ex is coming from. But, you've helped me see it more clearly & back to court we go !

I've had this on and off for 7 years. I had to go to court as my ex decided she would mess contact around, including turning up at RV point 1 day before contact was due or just not turning up and doing the same as your circs, ie saying kids dont want to come, locking kids in bedrooms and all sorts. I went to court and got initially regular contact. That became fraught when my ex realised that the system was ineffective. She failed to turn up, it took 8 weeks to get her back only for her to not be even questioned for her failure. After then she kept moving addresses so I couldn't find her and have to go back to court and pay the fees all over again. She moved all over the country in rented so by time invoked court procedure, she was untraceable, = fresh forms C1 and so on and several hundred quid each time.

I'd asked for penal notices, but court won't employ any investigation into tracing her or bailiffs or anything. They will not send her to prison, nor do i want them to, so the whole system is useless. I even had the police come with me on 2 occasions to several addresses but even when i found her, she wouldn't comply. I paid my fees to court, rewrote war and peace, went to a hearing and pleaded my case and by time I'd spent £1k, they were unable to bring her to book.

Now I know 4 places that hold her address, neither will provide it me as it is a breach of data protection, even though she is breaking the law. It's too late to pursue it any further as too long has gone by and court last time argued why I was trying!

So just be aware. Make sure if you go to court, then court it always will be. Ask Cafcass to investigate, they will try and avoid it as they are deluged with work, but stick them out, tell the judge you require Cafcass to investigate and they will order it. Cafcass will help, they did help me, I saw my kids and it worked until ex decided she would beat the system.

In it's current state the family court system is only as good as the other party is compliant. That's my experience anyway.

Good Luck

koolmummy

The children being aged 4 and 9 years old, the Courts/Cafcass will not accept that the children are old enough to decide that they don't want to spend time in line with the order with the non resident parent. They will view it as the RP not emotionally supporting contact and breaching the order. As a general rule the Courts/CAFCASS will say that children aged under 12 are not old enough to decide that they don't want to see the NRP.This age varies and depends on the maturity of the child.

I would agree with marksoton, join FNF - www.fnf.org.uk., they are a great organization that will give you invaluable info and emotional support, they have excellent branch meetings up and down the country.

The law slightly changed regarding Children's Act proceedings late last year,08/12/09, your partner needs to apply to the courts to have a warning notice attached to the contact order, you need to fill in a C78 form and pay £40 fee to the court office. You can get the form here: www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk. You need to take 4 copies of the completed form and fill in a general form of Affadavit, ( a brief statement outlining the circumstances of breached contact) get this sworn at the court office. The court will then send out an amended copy of the Contact order with the warning notice attached to it. No hearing, it's a pure paper pushing excersice. The penal notice that Ambera mentioned has been replaced by new contact order sanctions for non compliant R.P's - fines, community service, transfer of residence to contact parent and also prsion. Any contact Order issued after 08/12/09 has the warning already attached.

This may be enough to make the ex understand that your partner will take action if further contact is frustrated. I would suggest that you do this asap as court fees are about to increase, there has been talk of increasing some applications to £4000 :eek:

If this doesn't work and I hope that it will, then on to plan B - to enforce the order.
There are plently of peple on here that can help you with this should you need it.

Hope this helps.

charlie..._7

classic and sadly a common case of parental alienation syndrome

charlie..._7

commonly knowm as P.A.S.

look it up and good luck