advice needed on noise in house converted to flats..

Sirbendy

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but..here goes. It's quite long. I'm really at my wits end here!

We've moved into a top floor flat, in what was originally one house. Downstairs are another couple (who we thought were nice). Both our landlords know each other, and the last place we rented, we rented from the landlord who own the downstairs flat (small world).

Now, we've been in since...mid feb. 2 of us, 2 cats, 2 guinea pigs. Both working full time. Downstairs seemed friendly enough.

Then a month or so back, laddie downstairs had an all night party with a mate..loud thumpy music right through until 4am, loud laughter, shouting, drinking etc. This was a weekend.

We managed to ignore it...didn't sleep mind.

On friday (start of 4 day W/E), he had another, with his missus there this time. 1am, the music went up..My missus banged on the floor, the music went louder, then off...we said "ah, they heard."

Then I heard loud laughter, and it came back louder than ever. So missus went to have a word. I followed.

Laddo downstairs was shouting "f**k off!" at the door, then his missus opened it and started shouting at my missus about "why should we keep the noise down? Not our problem, hard luck", etc...he was sat in the room mouthing off about "better not f**king pi** me off, I'm right f**king hard" and so on. Sloshed off his tits.

They had a visitor, who kept apologising. Then his missus started saying that "the noise of your cats is worse, but we don't complain".

I pointed out that maybe they should, that I wouldn't have minded, that we could have worked around it to try and mitigate it, and they were more than welcome to come and chat. I also pointed out that at 1.20am, with 6-8 inches or whatever seperating us, we were not happy - by all means have the music on, at a lower volume until..say 11pm latest, but then off? Common courtesy, after all.

She mouthed off at me then - so I said "OK, keep it up. I'll call our landlords, then yours as he's on my phone, then if you don't pack it up, I'll get the damn police involved - I'm sure you're in breach of tenancy rules with this..".

I got a "Do I f**king care?" then she shut the door.

However, the music went off.

Since then, no problems..nights are quiet. They still blank us, and no communications have occurred. I AM aware that the cats play at night, but I do shut them out of all bar the landing (where the beds are) and bathrom (where the loo is).

I've even gated and blocked off stairwell access, to stop racing up and down there.

The problem is, this was a house, converted on the cheap. One water supply, no sound barrier under the floor, old creaky floors, a kitchen floor that bounces (when we put the washer on, it makes the missus feel sick), and all carpets (lino in the kitchen) STAPLED DIRECT to the boards, with no underlay. The quietest room may well be the living room, that's laminated with the proper barrier mat under it.

As I say, we've done what we can with the cats..they're not happy mind you. I let them into the living room/kitchen at 6.50-7am for feeding (when they're attacking our door to wake us), and we try to be as quiet as realistically possible.

It's come as a shock that downstairs have gone from seemingly nice to total ar5eholes like this, and if him down there gets abusive when drunk, well...after seeing how they behaved, it's put me off this flat. After 2 months! I love the area, the landlords are nice..everything was great. Now I just feel tense in the place.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to what more we can do? If anything? It IS an old house, and I know house->flat conversions isn't really what the place was made for...but equally I can't fit underlay to everything as we're renting, and even then, animals are animals..there will always be SOME noise made by the floors!

Things like the washer we set for run during the day, when people are out at work..and cooking etc we try to do before 9pm, and we're in bed by 10.30 latest.

Thing is, is everything goes well...there may be a sprog on the horizon..now, if they can't cope with cats, that's going to spark a war...and if they turn the music up and behave as they have been previously, I can't see it ending up nicely.

Many thanks...

eho

Hi

In this type of conversion noise transmission is usually an issue, especially in older conversions. The conversion would have had to comply with the building regulations at the time the conversion took place. Obvioulsy the regulations have changed over time, however there is caselaw regarding sound insulation and there is not a requirement to rectify the sound proofing to todays building reg standards.

Please do not worry about any general living noise, like footfall (people walking around in your property), using appliances etc. It is a residential property and you are entitled to use it as such.

If trying to talk to your neighbours has failed you are left with limited options regarding their music/parties. I would suggest you contact your local council environmental health dept. They will be able to investigate your complaint and take appropriate enforcement action if they have sufficient evidence. They may also be able to arrange mediation to try and resolve the matter informally. I can understand that you may have reservations about going down this route but give it some thought.

For information you can also take your own action under section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 via the magistrates court.

Hope this helps.

eco-friendly_2

Sorry the best advice I can give you is MOVE.


It's not just poorly converted properties that cause these noise issues, sometimes it can be a problem with new build as well, does your LL have any other properties? If not ask your LL if they would consider putting the flat back on the market! A smart LL will know your not happy there, and they will get the property back no matter what. Hopefully your lease is only for 6 months, fitting underlay will make very little difference.

cowbutt

It doesn't really matter how good the noise insulation is if someone else in the same building is having loud music on, especially late at night when there aren't normal daytime sounds to mask it a bit. Your downstairs neighbours need to learn some consideration and that flats aren't really the place for all-night parties.

Sirbendy

Hmm...moving again isn't an option for 10 months now, and in 10 months, I think we *may* have our hands a little full (if all goes well). Depends if kids affect our tenancy or not, I suppose. I'd really rather not move for a while..especially down to a pair of tits downstairs who are behaving like teenagers. And as I work in a school, it's a damn good comparison..heh.

They're being quiet still..so fingers crossed a shock to their system like that had the desired effect. If they have our old landlord, odds are they've signed the same tenancy agreement we did at his last property - I must look through it for "acceptable behaviour" clauses.

Shame of it is, this is a decent little flat, and the area is just lovely..in the centre of town, local shops, good transport, friendly residents, nice scenery etc. Where we were before was on the outskirts about 2 miles away..still nice, but this place was £150 cheaper per month rent, and cheaper council tax/water rates etc.

I'll have a look at both agreements, and think about a chat with the landlord, I think..

Sirbendy

in fact, I just checked - if they rent through harwoods (very likely as their landlord really likes them)...these clauses exist on the tenancy they use for shorthold.

"4.4.1 Not permit or suffer to be done on the property anything which may be, or may be likely to cause a nuisance or annoyance to a person residing, visiting or otherwise engaged in lawful activity in the locality. This responsibility included the actions and behaviour of friends and visitors of the tenant"

"4.4.2 Not make or permit any noise or play any radio, TV, or other equipment in or about the property between the hours of 10pm to 7am so as to be an audible nuisance outside the property"

"4.4.3 Not carry on any trade or profession upon the property, but use the property solely as a place of residence"

Now, 4.4.2 - "outside the property" could I assume be classed as "outside of the flat", which includes our flat, as opposed to "outside of the converted house unit", where the noise doesn't conduct much.

And the only reason I noted 4.4.3 with a smile is that I've had a LOT of mail for him...as people seem to do in a conversion like this, and I've even had a very serious gentleman that just screamed "debt collector" which would fit with the mail, who was told that the person didn't live here (before we realised he was downstairs!)...and 99% of what I've got is for someone with his name, "T/A" which I assume is "trading as", and then a computer service outfit.

Of course, I googled it, as you do...and his website does state his rented flat as his place of business...naughty that, is it not? I'm 100% sure that's a breach, right there.

He hasn't found out yet that I'm in the same field, as is my partner..heh..

amcluesent

As you're renting, you don't have to worry about 'bighting' the property by making complaints to council, bizzies etc. as would be the case if you were an owner/occupier.

The sound like typical chavs, no point in trying to be reasonable, they'll just exploit any sign of weakness.

damtheman

Fingers crossed that they keep quiet! And that agreement (if they are agreed to it) is being breached right out the window - oh dear oh dear.

You have my sympathy - we've had it all before.

Hit them hard next time something occurs

never_enough

Have been in similar situation myself. Noise & neighbour issues were almost always the prompt to move from a flat. It can really blight your life, so you have my sympathy. It would make sense for you to document the incident(s) even if you don't contact the landlord at this stage. It could be that you don't need to take things further, their friend may have even told them they were out of line the following morning... However, they may well be fuming & writing down every squeak your cats make for a retaliation slanging match.
Btw I wouldn't worry about putting the washing machine on when you're out of the flat. I've seen the aftermath of a water pipe from a w-m leaking all day from flat above, ceiling down, big mess. :eek: As long as you're not doing the washing late at night it's totally acceptable noise.

JennyW_2

never_enough wrote: »

Btw I wouldn't worry about putting the washing machine on when you're out of the flat. I've seen the aftermath of a water pipe from a w-m leaking all day from flat above, ceiling down, big mess. :eek: As long as you're not doing the washing late at night it's totally acceptable noise.

I agree. I wouldn't be treading on egg shellls - you have to live. Do everything you need to do at acceptable times to yourselves. As for the neighbours hearing the cat - i think that's a bit of a fat lie. Never heard of anyone having a problem with cat noise :rolleyes: