NRP owes 24K with 2 charging orders on property

proudsinglemum

I have been reading this forum for a while now and have picked up some very useful tips that have enable me to get the CSA to instigate, Inland revenue traces for PAYE, LO and Charging Order against the NRP and as a reslult got a lum sum, 16K in 2007:j from NRP after remortaging and not a penny since.

I am currently not working but claim only Incapcity Benefit due to the fact I was in a car crash and have a neck injury that prevents me from working. I only claim CTC and CB for my daughter as I was advised if I claim anything else it would effect any furture Child maintence payments coming directly to us instead of going to the secretary of state. If this advice is wrong can someone tell me!

I am a PWC and have had my case with CSA for the last 8 years. We are at the same stage as last time with 3 charging orders on the property which is jointly owned with his wife and they have a child together.

My caseworker is ok at the CSA I call on regular basis and write down key notes. I have been told that my case meets the criteria for 'forced sale' action.

At present the NRP owes over £24k and only contact CSA to make hollow arrangemnts, which they no longer believe!

It would appear to me that this action 'forced sale' is rare. Has anyone been through this process? What happens if property is jointly owned? If there is a child living in the property will they still go for forced sale - I would be mortified if a child was made homeless because of their dad was not meeting his finiancal obligations towards my child. I do not stop access before that one comes up I am too adult for that, give them the rope to hang themselves is my motto.

My case has not run smoothly, files sent to court for LO #6 and had to wait 4 months before it was discovered but generally am happy due to the fact the NRP and tried every thing one can think of to evade paying i.e. not his child, told the bailiffs he was his brother (I sent a current picture and bailiffs confirmed it was the same person), it took months for the case to be handed back to CSA before anymore action could be taken, but am concerned that a) regular maintence is never addressed, b)have to keep going through the long winded process of charging orders and forced sale action every couple of years. My daughter is alive and kicking and has needs on a daily basis.

The NRP does earn very good money he has been instructed to pay £200 pw out of a £4,400 per month salary. Nice amount I hear you all say but not if you do not get it on a regular basis.

What I need to know is there other options the CSA can take other than committal to prison and I would be mortified if my daughter thought I had put her daddy into prison and with a criminal record he can not get any well paid job.

Any advice or reassurance would be greatly appreciated.

kelloggs36

I don't know what you want - if you want the softly softly approach, you will get nothing as he clearly has no intentions of paying. You need to decide whether you want him to pay or not. He has made the decision that your child isn't important but you are feeling guilty if his new child is put to inconvenience - very noble of you but it won't get you any money - he has no scruples and you need to lose yours if you want paying to be honest.

The equity in his half must be enough for the CSA debt to be paid off in full - it doesn't affect his partner's half at all. Do you know how much equity is in the house altogether? If it is quite substantial, then to be honest, he could (if he tried very hard) still have enough of a deposit to put down on a new home and his monthly income is enough for him to be able to finance a mortgage again. Alternatively he could rent privately - he won't be homeless as he is not poor and living on benefits. He has chosen to put himself into this position and so can only blame himself.

They can only go for committal as a last resort - ie if the forced sale fails then they will go for it, or they could get a further liability order and go for committal on the other debt while they make up their minds about the order for sale. To be honest, the courts don't order committal if they can avoid it - they will tell him to pay a set amount which gives him a chance to pay up but if he doesn't then he again, only has himself to blame. It isn't your fault if he ends up in jail - it is his and his alone. If he fails to pay, then the CSA will apply for a 'show cause' hearing where he will either be jailed or be ordered to come up with the money; this happened with my ex. He was about to be sent to jail when he said he would remortgage which took months but he had no choice in the end. He still owes me about 2k after that and he has stopped paying. Don't feel guilty about the outcome for HIS decisions - fight for what is rightfully your child's.

YAZZ_2

Thank you for not giving in......I'm struggling with my fight with the CSA I have to say. Still haven't got a penny after 7 years.

Although I am not a legal professional, I have previously taken someone to court (nothing to do with CSA) and had a charging order filed. I did go for order of sale and was sucessful....BUT....I wouldn't have been if there was children living there (or so I was told by the judge)
But at the same time repossessions are given every day whether or not a child lives there or not....so where's the difference???? I know the CSA can take driving licence away...apparently....and can send to prison and believe me if I get this option I wouldn't hesitate. Your child is more important and if he doesn't think that or that of his 'new family' to do anything he can to avoid going to prison...then he deserves it.

There are wonderful fathers out there who would move heaven and earth for their children, unfortunately we didn't end up with one of those. :rotfl:

proudsinglemum

Thank you for your replies.

I do hear and understand what you are saying Kellogg36 with regards to softly softly approach, but the fact another child is going to be made to move/homeless does not sit well with me. Children are the innocent parties in these cases.

Yes it would appear there is enough equity to clear the debt he has CSA are just waiting for the mortage co. to get back to them with figures!

I fully agree with you that this man has no scruples and deserves everything he gets. I am also aware his new wife is not aware that her home is at risk of being sold to pay for his debt!

Yazz thank you but as you can appreciate it is a long stressful process and hope that you like myself do get a lump sum for your family and eventually get regular payments.

It would appear that if the forced sale goes ahead then this would be the last time the CSA would be able to secure the debt against him. Also there seems to not many more options CSA have to a) secure regular payments - self employed, b) the rest of the oustanding debt not accounted for by way of LO or CO.

kelloggs36

That would be the last time in respect of THAT debt, but not others for which they can get liability orders from.

LizzieS_2

It is a common misconception that a house cannot be forced into sale due to either only being 50% owned or a child living there. I agree it is a very grey area in many cases, but your ex's earnings do not in any way fall into that grey area. On his income alone, he can afford a high mortgage - assuming £4400pm is gross he would be allowed £158K on the old 3 x salary 25 year mortgage.

A forced sale by the csa purely shows that he cannot manage his finances (the child living with him would find that out at some point as his bubble would have to burst even without the csa helping you, so the younger the better).

Prison, again it is purely down to his decisions - he has had many chances to become a proper parent and will get a few more before that becomes a reality.

Don't feel guilty for choices your ex makes - his fault alone.

kelloggs36

Quite Lizzie - he and his wife and child will NOT be homeless I can assure you! He earns lots of money and will avoid that at all costs - whether it be through paying his debt or by moving house - either way you won't be facing the situation where you are forcing anything............HE has chosen this path and he alone.

proudsinglemum

Thanks Lizzies and Kelloggs36.

I personally do not think he will EVER put his name down on a property again if CSA force the sale of his property. Yes I agree that he has made his choices.

Thanks for helping me to see things clearly.

mitchaa

proudsinglemum wrote: »

I am currently not working but claim only Incapcity Benefit due to the fact I was in a car crash and have a neck injury that prevents me from working. I only claim CTC and CB for my daughter as I was advised if I claim anything else it would effect any furture Child maintence payments coming directly to us instead of going to the secretary of state. If this advice is wrong can someone tell me!

I'm not quite sure what else you could claim anywayI thought child related benefits came down to just CB and CTC or am i mistaken?

Loopy_Girl

mitchaa wrote: »

I'm not quite sure what else you could claim anywayI thought child related benefits came down to just CB and CTC or am i mistaken?

As a lone parent you would also claim Income Support.

Of course you wouldn't be sure - up there in the ivory tower;)

proudsinglemum

Thank you all for your replies.

Update

Spoke with the CSA this morning and there is a HEFTY charging order already on the property before the CSA's charging order so it would appear now that there may not be enough equity left in the property to pay all of the debt. The last LO #6 (£7K) has got a court date for 8/05/09, then they will apply for a interim charging order but have been told with LO #6 will exceed the amount of equity left! A deficeit of £3K, plus the accurred arrears to date that have not got any LO's is £2K, which I have been told they will not start further enforcement action until the outcome of the Forced for Sale hearing, which again is going to take months before a court date, as they are putting together the paperwork and waiting for LO #6 to get to interim charging order stage to make the figure be 85% of the debt is registered as charging orders.

I was also told that a Forced for Sale has never been granted! :shocked: Also the only other option they are going to consider after this action is to committal to prison. It would appear that the options of enforcement are running out for my ex.