Crunch Time: A crisis that is dividing young and old

Oldernotwiser

needahome wrote: »

I had to pay for my university education, they got theirs for free.

Only 10% of the population had the opportunity of going to university.

They got final salary pensions, I don't

More people got them then than now but it's not an absolute thing.

I've got to work longer than they did, to pay for their greed.

Most people started working life at 15/16, whereas 18/22 is more common these days - pretty well balances out.

They bought their homes a lot cheaper then we do in relation to their wages.

With only one income being taken into consideration for mortgage purposes, minimum 10% deposits and rocketing inflation.
need I go on ?

I wonder how many of the younger generation are sitting rubbing their hands over the possibility of inheriting the family home? Far less property was available for inheritance for the older generation.

olly300

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I wonder how many of the younger generation are sitting rubbing their hands over the possibility of inheriting the family home? Far less property was available for inheritance for the older generation.

Lots I'm afraid.

I actually keep hearing from some of the people I work with in their 20s,30s and early 40s about their "inheritance".

They don't get it that:
1. There is nothing until their parents die
2. Due to old people living longer there may not be any money left anyway
3. Due to old people living longer their parents may decided to leave the money to their grandchildren for their education and they will never see the money themselves.

treliac

There are winners and losers in all generations. There's far too much stereotyping along this thread. Like for like comparisons are impossible to make for all sorts of reasons.

Just look how some have taken control of their own destiny, handled their finances wisely, gone without, etc. etc. to ensure some comfort later in life. Others have spent everything on material temptations as they've gone along. Some have worked hard, others haven't bothered. Some are independent, others are not motivated.

Society and the economy is constantly changing. Some benefit, some don't and luck plays it's part. But in the main we have choices and we have to live with the conseqences.

Life has never been fair and never will be. It's best to drop the envy and bitterness and just get on with trying to do what you can, with consideration for both yourself and others.

Pobby

Hi Edale, and no I don`t think you are attacking pensioners unlike the OP. Lots of great points being made, this is turning into a great, sock puppet free thread.

A very good point regarding small provisions in retirement from Edale. As I understand it, anyone receiving pension tax credit has to have less than £6,000 in savings. For every £500 above that amount it is assumed that one pound a week is earned in interest. This amount to be deducted from any tax credit. Clearly our government banks with The Royal Bank of La La, situated in Never Never Land.
where they earn 10% per annum interest.

If, I suppose, you both had an income of say £130 a week, rent and CT paid I guess you are looking at a package of say around £400 per week, far more in London.

For me it`s a complicated issue. We both will receive full state pensions and some serps which will add up to pretty much the £130 per week each.

We have a mix of 7 pensions. 2 old company ones,3 " paid up" and 2 current ones. Right now we have them under review. Some years ago I would have expected them to have been worth in total £12k ish per year but to my maths more likely half of that.

We have a good amount in savings, ISAs and investments, the latter not looking to good right now but will have to wait and see. Our plan was to use these as a draw down, capital and interest over 20 years. Again the figure at .5% interest is going to be a lot less than when we planned on 5%.

The house will have to be sold. It`s Edwardian and expensive to keep up. Although not very large, it is on 3 levels. The stairs would worry me. Have looked at double static caravans as an alternative parked on some lovely sites. Will have to see.

Edale

When people see MPs legitimately claiming the expenses that we have seen in the last few weeks and then trying to justify them. When you see the likes of Fred Goodwin who are partly responsible for bringing the economic mess we are in yet walk away with a £700k pa pension at the age of 50. When you see footballers on £100k + a week. When you hear of council leaders and NHS chiefs on 6 figure salaries and when you hear of BTL 'entrepeneurs' boasting of their immense wealth, there is no wonder people both young and old feel bitter and angry.

We seem to have evolved into a much more divided nation financially - the facts and figures may suggest otherwise but the way the above is reported in the media certainly makes people feel that way. Perhaps this is why we appear to attack and defend so much. I can't believe anyone would want our old folk (and themselves in old age) not to be well looked after. I also can't believe that anyone doesn't want to help the younger generation be well educated and somehow build a home and raise a family.

Pobby

I was a member of the Labour party when I believed they were about closing the gap between rich and poor. Under this lot the gap has once again widened. The middle classes ( working class old style ) have been made to pay for much of this governments folly with higher taxation, much higher house prices and as in our case, no entitlement to benefits if my very small business folds.

It seems amazing that just over 30 years ago I bought a 3 bed semi in the south east and it wasn`t a great financial strain unlike now.

dylansmum

ceridwen wrote: »

I do sympathise with the younger generation - with the way that University grants no longer exist and they even have to pay fees to go to University. My sympathies there lie with the ones who go to University to do "genuine" degrees - ie the type my generation had. The problem there is that the Government would appear to be trying to spend the same amount of money as they ever did on Universities - but there are a lot more people going to University than there were in my day (hence the cake is cut a lot more thinly and people having to pay their own way). Final salary pensions having vanished to a large extent - again - I sympathise - with anyone of any age who doesnt get/wont get these (but do bear in mind that for those on lower salaries that extra from their final salary pension may give them little - if any - more money than they would get on Pension Credit instead anyway). Many lower-earners will have achieved no more than paying their own Pension Credit for themselves. Pretty much the only advantage to a lower earner on a final salary pension is that some of them (but not many!) will be able to retire before the current State Pension Age (because of the job pension starting up sooner than that) - BUT they've most probably had to start work sooner than 21/22 years old (which is when many of the younger generation started work) - so thats in the nature of a "trade-off" you could say. I never wanted to work - still dont - but needs must - and I had to start work sooner than that myself.

I must admit it did give me pause for thought the other day when someone commented that house prices had started shooting up at about the time that both partners in a marriage started expecting to continue working after marriage. That could well have an element of truth though - but obviously it wasnt fair for women to continue to be sacked on marriage (as happened to many women of my mothers generation). I would certainly have expected to continue working if I had got married - and would have taken great exception if my employer had tried to sack me. And..yes...I was on the receiving end of those "shooting" house prices - struggling to buy a house on my own on a womans wage...and both furious and very upset that it took me so long because of this fact (but determined to hold out and not get married to the wrong person - just to have my house at the correct time!).

On the non-material front - I think the younger generation does have some things to thank us for.

- They take for granted that they can get effective contraception and abortion as required - we were the generation that had to fight for that right.
- They take for granted that there is no pressure on them to get married - believe me there was pressure on a non-career woman like myself to get married and I had to be very strongwilled to refuse to marry a wrong man. It is independently-minded women like me who fought for our right to remain single if we chose.
- They take for granted that they can live together before (or even without) marriage. My generation would have had a fallout Big Time with our parents if we had done so - so few of us did.
- It was my generation that can report a lot of incidents of sexual discrimination against us at work. It still happens - but probably a lot less than it did for my generation. We were the ones who fought for the right to equal pay and equal treatment to men.

So - yes....things are worse materially-speaking in many ways for younger people - but blame the Government for that - not us (and I'm at an age where that had already started - so my State Pension and OAP Tax Allowance are both going to start later than I had bargained on!!:mad::mad:). But - do bear in mind that many middle-aged people will also feel the brunt of some of this (because it started in our era) and do bear in mind that its not our fault - and we do sympathise. And a little bit of thanks for all the ways we have fought so that your life is better in the non-material sense (ie more freedom than we had) would be nice:cool:

Well said! My dad is 78 and my mum has passed on but would have been 74 this year. Both lived in Council homes (my dad still does), both earnt low wages - yet my dad was and is a great saver; so no, he isn't 'poor' - but he is not rich. He worked 7 days a week at a pit form the age of 14 until he was made redundant in 1985 after the miners' strike. I wish he could more state help! But he pays for everything - as he is gets his full state pension and the miners' pensions (NOT an enormous sum). When he was made redundant (he earnt 6K a year - 10 K MAX with o/time) he got 7K. But I went to uni then on to a PhD - all thanks to my mum and dad.

Now, I teach uni students and they sometimes have little grasp of the hard fought battles for broader rights. Including the vote! Not blaming them - and I hate how much debt they are in after uni - but for folks like my dad uni was not possible. Housing was poor until Council housing and poverty did mean eating little. It really did! But as my dad says - there are still people in dire straits, young and older - and no one should be that way given the wealth in this world. (PS: my Dda would rather vote for the devil than NuLab or Tories...)

StevieJ

Pobby wrote: »

I was a member of the Labour party when I believed they were about closing the gap between rich and poor. Under this lot the gap has once again widened. The middle classes ( working class old style ) have been made to pay for much of this governments folly with higher taxation, much higher house prices and as in our case, no entitlement to benefits if my very small business folds.

It seems amazing that just over 30 years ago I bought a 3 bed semi in the south east and it wasn`t a great financial strain unlike now.

Not exactly rocket science! If you had bought end of 1978 by 1982 RPI had increased by 60% presumably along with your wages and thus devaluing you debt.
Throw in MIRAS and Pob's your uncle

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that we could see a virtual repeat in the not so distant future.

staffie1

Francesanne wrote: »

I really hope you've checked to make sure your parents are claiming every benefit they're entitled to. It's normally older folk who are to proud to claim what they're entitled to.

Thanks for that Francesanne. Where can I check that they are claiming what they're entitled to?

vivatifosi

staffie1 wrote: »

Thanks for that Francesanne. Where can I check that they are claiming what they're entitled to?

There's an entitlements calculator at http://www.entitledto.co.uk/. It has recently been updated for the 2009/10 tax year.